Safe Standing at the AMEX: Yes or No?

[drew]

The problem seems to be that there is a minority who are up for confrontation which will probably derail any legitimate campaign at Brighton for Safe standing. At the moment the law doesn't allow it and PB has already indicated it isn't on the agenda for the foreseable future.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Interesting that 15% are totally against it at the AMEX, I really wonder why as it would just be a couple of areas and for those that want it. I wouldn't personnally move to a standing area season ticket, although maybe it would be good to experience it for the occasional cup game.

I know only one Championship club voted against looking into it at the recent meeting - to be honest I was certain ( and dreading ) that it would have been us - but I am cheered by Atilla saying it wasn't ( on the other thread about standing ).

 

[drew]

Interesting that 15% are totally against it at the AMEX, I really wonder why as it would just be a couple of areas and for those that want it. I wouldn't personnally move to a standing area season ticket, although maybe it would be good to experience it for the occasional cup game.

I know only one Championship club voted against looking into it at the recent meeting - to be honest I was certain ( and dreading ) that it would have been us - but I am cheered by Atilla saying it wasn't ( on the other thread about standing ).

15% of 450 NSCers who bothered to vote, not 15% of 25,000ish that turn up every game.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

If the cost of modifying the North Stand to accomodate safe standing was recovered through the North Stand ticket prices, would it still be as popular?

 

[Captain Sensible]

If the cost of modifying the North Stand to accomodate safe standing was recovered through the North Stand ticket prices, would it still be as popular?

Costs would be fairly minimal. The safe standing can be bolted in instead of seats. Its not hard, it could be done in a few days i would have thought.

Even though PB said its not on the agenda, BHAFC seemingly voted for the trials. So they are not totally against it. As soon as the trials happen, everyone will see its benefits. Its one of those things you actually need to see working before you can fully understand how it works and understand that there can NEVER be a crush and that it is infact safer than seats.

Anyone against part of a stadium becoming a safe standing area is living in the dark ages.

I would definitely move to a safe standing area. I hate watching football sitting down.

 

[birthofanorange]

Costs would be fairly minimal. The safe standing can be bolted in instead of seats. Its not hard, it could be done in a few days i would have thought.

Even though PB said its not on the agenda, BHAFC seemingly voted for the trials. So they are not totally against it. As soon as the trials happen, everyone fully understand it and see its benefits. Its one of those things you actually need to see working before you can full understand how it works and understand that there can NEVER be a crush and that it is infact safer than seats.

Anyone against part of a stadium becoming a safe standing area is living in the dark ages.

I would definitely move to a safe standind area. I hate watching football sitting down.

Stop being so bloody...er, sensible! By the way, did anyone else receive a letter from the House of Commons the other day? Scared the shit out of me when I saw the logo - must be a guilty conscience! Actually, it was a communication from Mike Weatherly MP, stating that he has signed the Early day Motion 573 in support of the Safe Standing Campaign.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Dont sit/stand in the north so its not really relevant to me and i'm quite happy sitting down watching footie long as i can jump up at various stages of the game due to goals ..bad refereeing etc

 

[Captain Sensible]

Dont sit/stand in the north so its not really relevant to me and i'm quite happy sitting down watching footie long as i can jump up at various stages of the game due to goals ..bad refereeing etc

Yes but stand a second or two too long and you risk getting thrown out.

 

[drew]

Yes but stand a second or two too long and you risk getting thrown out.

Complete bollox and you know it. As for taking a couple of days to remove seating and install the safe seating you are having a laugh.

 

[countryman]

Stop being so bloody...er, sensible! By the way, did anyone else receive a letter from the House of Commons the other day? Scared the shit out of me when I saw the logo - must be a guilty conscience! Actually, it was a communication from Mike Weatherly MP, stating that he has signed the Early day Motion 573 in support of the Safe Standing Campaign.

I got an email from Norman Baker about it. He seemed to be pro safe standing. He sent the letter I sent to him to the minister of sport but the minister of sport was completely against it. In his email he didn't really have much of an argument.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Yes but stand a second or two too long and you risk getting thrown out.

dont hav a problem in EU....stood for at least 3 mins for the penalty

have to say i am puzzled ..we wait so long for this stadium and now people want to change it ..but like i said earlier i dont stand/sit in north stand

 

[Captain Sensible]

Complete bollox and you know it. As for taking a couple of days to remove seating and install the safe seating you are having a laugh.

It isn't complete bollocks, I'm in the EU with a wall behind me and stood for 2 consecutive corners, steward asks me to sit down. Then second half I stand for a bit after second half restarted and waited for my mate to come back and got warned that I was on my last warning and would be ejected if I did it again. Rather than argue I just sat down.

With regard to fitting standing barriers instead of seats, what's your problem? I'm not having a laugh, you are talking complete bollocks. Have a look at the pictures do some research before you get mouthy. The barriers bolt into where the seats were. It takes a bit if drilling, a bit of removing, then a bit of installing and then hey presto, Safe standing. It might not be quite as simple as I've put it but it would be fast and it would be cheap.

 

[HovaGirl]

Standing in football grounds in the UK was made illegal after the Hillsborough disaster of 1990. This law would have to be changed before the Club could introduce standing in the North Stand. It would also be expensive for the club to alter the seats to safe standing ones, and put in the rails. The club would also have to charge cheaper ticket prices and that would affect its profits, unless they would be able to cram in more people for standing, than they would for sitting. If the safe standing seats are one-to-one, the club is hardly going to reduce the ticket prices which would affect its profits.

 

[drew]

Standing in football grounds in the UK was made illegal after the Hillsborough disaster of 1990. This law would have to be changed before the Club could introduce standing in the North Stand. It would also be expensive for the club to alter the seats to safe standing ones, and put in the rails. The club would also have to charge cheaper ticket prices and that would affect its profits, unless they would be able to cram in more people for standing, than they would for sitting. If the safe standing seats are one-to-one, the club is hardly going to reduce the ticket prices which would affect its profits.

I believe one of the arguments is that you get more people in a safe standing area than if they were seated however the safety cert is for a certain capacity so there would have to be planning applications or whatever to get that altered. Also I believe PB alluded to the fact that the facilities in the concourse are set to the level of the current capacity, eg toilets, emergency exits etc so that all needs changing.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I believe one of the arguments is that you get more people in a safe standing area than if they were seated however the safety cert is for a certain capacity so there would have to be planning applications or whatever to get that altered. Also I believe PB alluded to the fact that the facilities in the concourse are set to the level of the current capacity, eg toilets, emergency exits etc so that all needs changing.

This is exactly right.

It would be an expensive refit to the North Stand, including extending it back I imagine, moving the offices, and perhaps adding an upper concourse etc.

I'd like it to happen as I think the ground would be better, but equally I don't see why Tony should pay for it. Sell out what we've got regularly, and financially it may make sense.

 

[attila]

Standing in football grounds in the UK was made illegal after the Hillsborough disaster of 1990. This law would have to be changed before the Club could introduce standing in the North Stand. It would also be expensive for the club to alter the seats to safe standing ones, and put in the rails. The club would also have to charge cheaper ticket prices and that would affect its profits, unless they would be able to cram in more people for standing, than they would for sitting. If the safe standing seats are one-to-one, the club is hardly going to reduce the ticket prices which would affect its profits.

And given that it is now proved that the disaster was not caused by terracing but by criminal negligence backed up by police and media lies, a terrace ban no longer has any moral or legal justification. THe special nature of the Albion's situation having just built a new stadium is a different matter, but not an insoluable one.

 

[teaboy]

There's also no reason why is HAS to be cheaper. There are many people who want to stand through choice, not for financial reasons. How much should it cost to stand anyway? The last time anyone paid to stand at an Albion home game was at Gillingham in the 4th tier. How does that equate price-wise to Falmer in the 2nd tier?

 

[Captain Sensible]

What are some of you on about? Expensive to install? Moving the offices at the back? Against the law?
Sorry but this really shows the lack of understanding there is about safe standing.
The system is not expensive, it does not require any alterations to existing terrace unless the current seating space is too tight to refit the rails, this is not a problem at the Amex. The rail system up keep is cheaper than seats. The club would have to pay to get it installed of course but it wouldn't cost a lot.
The safe standing individual zone ie, the area with the fold down seat in which you stand, does not have to be smaller than the size if the existing seats. So the club would have to make the decision on whether or not to apply to increase capacity.
The tickets for this area do not need to be cheaper.
It is against the law to stand in seated areas, not against the law to stand at football. Peterborough for example.

 

[Captain Sensible]

FSF Safe Standing Petition

Aberdeen
AFC Wimbledon
Aston Villa
Bristol City
Cardiff City
Celtic
Chelsea
Crystal Palace
Derby County
Hull City
Leicester City
Liverpool
Oxford Utd
Peterborough Utd
Portsmouth
Sunderland
Supporters Direct
Wolves

These clubs are backing it. The Amex capacity has the potential to increase with safe standing although to start with it does not have to, however the increased capacity equals increase revenue.
With regard to expensive to fit. Some clubs in Germany move some of their safe standing zones around and replace with seats and vice versa.
It will come it will happen, there is no legitimate reason why anyone should be against it.

 

[Acker79]

-Standing isn't illegal, but it is against the ground regulations.
-Expensive or cheap is relative. I couldn't afford to replace the seats, but I'm not tony book/brighton and hove albion (with their 8m losses)
-Increased capacity won't happen because, according to Barber, capacity isn't about number of seats you can fit, but the width of the exits and such.
-Same number of seats + cheaper prices = less revenue, in an age of ffp that isn't sensible business.
-My reading of the taylor report suggests that hillsborough wasn't caused by terracing or policing but by culture and ingrained attitudes that saw fans treated as subhuman, and that the treatment of fans like this, led to them acting sub human (part of this is the lack of comfort and facilities, example given in the report including urinating against the wall).