[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[A1X]

 

[papachris]

In Estonia, 3 men have been charged with treason. Conspiring against the state.

Aivo Peterson charged with treason

The Estonian State Prosecutor's Office has sent a criminal case to court, charging Estonian citizens Aivo Peterson and Dmitri Rootsi with treason. Russian citizen Andrey Andronov is also accused of the crime of committing non-violent actions against the Estonian state by a foreigner.

news.err.ee

 

[raymondo]

changed my mind

 

[GT49er]

Musk Secretly Used Starlink to Foil Ukrainian Drone Attack on Russian Ships: Report

The billlionaire allegedly feared the strike on Crimea could trigger nuclear war.

www.thedailybeast.com

Sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory - and the source being something called the 'Daily Beast' rather enhances that impression! These days, though, who knows?

 

[beorhthelm]

Sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory - and the source being something called the 'Daily Beast' rather enhances that impression! These days, though, who knows?

what's happened here is people have deliberately mistaken a service "switch off", when the system wasn't "switched on" under instruction for an operation. social media amplifies that error and it becomes the offical version. i'd venture a guess that area was outside Starlink operational area as it would give the Russians assistance, then an instruction came to turn on for a while.

since drones successfully navigated to Kerch bridge i'd also say there is more to this than we are told in a few tweets. there is backstory of Musk giving the Ukrainians loads of Starlink support in the first place, then some argument over who pays for running it and no one doing so.

 

[raymondo]

Quote from UK Govt that RAF are involved in Black Sea surveillance as a deterrent against Russian actions against cargo ships.

"
We will use our intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance to monitor Russian activity in the Black Sea, call out Russia if we see warning signs that they are preparing attacks on civilian shipping or infrastructure in the Black Sea, and attribute attacks to prevent false flag claims that seek to deflect blame from Russia.

As part of these surveillance operations, RAF aircraft are conducting flights over the area to deter Russia from carrying out illegal strikes against civilian vessels transporting grain.

Since pulling out of the Black Sea Grain Initiative, Russia has declared that all ships transiting to Ukrainian Black Sea ports will be treated as military vessels – irrespective of the cargo they are carrying. It has acted upon this assessment by firing shots and boarding a cargo ship bound for one of Ukraine’s Danube ports, action which may constitute a violation of International Humanitarian Law."

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Quote from UK Govt that RAF are involved in Black Sea surveillance as a deterrent against Russian actions against cargo ships.

"
We will use our intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance to monitor Russian activity in the Black Sea, call out Russia if we see warning signs that they are preparing attacks on civilian shipping or infrastructure in the Black Sea, and attribute attacks to prevent false flag claims that seek to deflect blame from Russia.

As part of these surveillance operations, RAF aircraft are conducting flights over the area to deter Russia from carrying out illegal strikes against civilian vessels transporting grain.

Since pulling out of the Black Sea Grain Initiative, Russia has declared that all ships transiting to Ukrainian Black Sea ports will be treated as military vessels – irrespective of the cargo they are carrying. It has acted upon this assessment by firing shots and boarding a cargo ship bound for one of Ukraine’s Danube ports, action which may constitute a violation of International Humanitarian Law."

Exactly what the RAF should be doing

 

[Eric the meek]

Another very clear message from the Ukrainians:

Ukraine – live: ‘600 members of Putin’s forces killed in a day’ as party HQ destroyed

‘Some went straight to the morgue,’ says Ukrainian mayor after Russians ‘burned out’ of headquarters

www.independent.co.uk

 

[raymondo]

Another very clear message from the Ukrainians:

Ukraine – live: ‘600 members of Putin’s forces killed in a day’ as party HQ destroyed

‘Some went straight to the morgue,’ says Ukrainian mayor after Russians ‘burned out’ of headquarters

www.independent.co.uk

Great work, Ukraine. Good to read that Russian 'politicians' in occupied area got their rewards

 

[raymondo]

So I guess that was the trade off then: zero direct condemnation of Russia, in return for agreement on non use/threat of nuclear weapons (let's see how long that lasts if Ukraine make significant ground, or sink a Russian naval ship, or sever the Kerch, or retake the power station):

"India was also able to get all G20 members, including Russia and China, to agree that the “use or threat of use of nuclear weapons is inadmissible”. Vladimir Putin, who is not attending the summit, has repeatedly threatened the West with the “increasing” prospect of nuclear weapons being used in Ukraine and said his own strategic nuclear weapons are on “combat duty”."


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[Sirnormangall]

So I guess that was the trade off then: zero direct condemnation of Russia, in return for agreement on non use/threat of nuclear weapons (let's see how long that lasts if Ukraine make significant ground, or sink a Russian naval ship, or sever the Kerch, or retake the power station):

"India was also able to get all G20 members, including Russia and China, to agree that the “use or threat of use of nuclear weapons is inadmissible”. Vladimir Putin, who is not attending the summit, has repeatedly threatened the West with the “increasing” prospect of nuclear weapons being used in Ukraine and said his own strategic nuclear weapons are on “combat duty”."


Promoted stories

Yes “peace for our time”. Let’s see how long it lasts

 

[GT49er]

Yes “peace for our time”. Let’s see how long it lasts

That, do I not like the sound of. Hope you're not right, but..................

 

[raymondo]

Ukraine launches missile attack on Crimea - BBC News

Ten missiles and three unmanned boats were used to attack the home of Russia's Black Sea fleet, Moscow says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Ukraine launches missile attack on Crimea - BBC News

Ten missiles and three unmanned boats were used to attack the home of Russia's Black Sea fleet, Moscow says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just from the random things i've read which delve into this further.

A sub and landing cruiser, (which further research has led me to understand is a bloody big ship) are likely destroyed or beyond repair in a reasonable timescale.

Also, Starlink went down at the very moment of the assault, leading to speculation that Elon Musk, not only knew about the impending attack, but took positive steps to try to prevent it happening. As it happens the missiles used weren't dependent on them.

 

[raymondo]

Just from the random things i've read which delve into this further.

A sub and landing cruiser, (which further research has led me to understand is a bloody big ship) are likely destroyed or beyond repair in a reasonable timescale.

Also, Starlink went down at the very moment of the assault, leading to speculation that Elon Musk, not only knew about the impending attack, but took positive steps to try to prevent it happening. As it happens the missiles used weren't dependent on them.

Thanks I haven't had time to look deeper yet. Sounds like a successful operation for Ukraine.
Re your second paragraph...wow. I have no idea what the normal/base level coverage is of Starlink, and did Musk affect that or some extension of it . No doubt more chat will come out today.

 

[Eric the meek]

Now that missiles can reach Sevastopol - and it would appear that Russian air defences are only partially effective - then we could see a further retreat from Crimea to Novorossiysk, the Russian port on the eastern coast of the Black Sea.

I understand there was a retreat of the Black Sea fleet a while ago, but the craft that Ukraine just hit, were in dry dock so presumably unable to sail.

A Russian presence in Crimea is looking increasingly untenable. It will be difficult for Putin to present his gradual expulsion from Crimea as anything other than a strategic defeat.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Now that missiles can reach Sevastopol - and it would appear that Russian air defences are only partially effective - then we could see a further retreat from Crimea to Novorossiysk, the Russian port on the eastern coast of the Black Sea.

I understand there was a retreat of the Black Sea fleet a while ago, but the craft that Ukraine just hit, were in dry dock so presumably unable to sail.

A Russian presence in Crimea is looking increasingly untenable. It will be difficult for Putin to present his gradual expulsion from Crimea as anything other than a strategic defeat.

Yes. One of the strategic values of Crimea is to exert control over the sea of Azov and the Black Sea. If Putin can't use the harbours, then this strategic value is lost entirely.

It's other strategic value of course is for land supply to Southern Ukraine, and I wouldn't put a huge amount of money on this still being the case in a years time.

 

[beorhthelm]

Also, Starlink went down at the very moment of the assault, leading to speculation that Elon Musk, not only knew about the impending attack, but took positive steps to try to prevent it happening. As it happens the missiles used weren't dependent on them.

seems like some wanting to stir. quick look up shows a world wide outage, hour and half after the attack. also missles would use GPS, only real need for Starlink is to feed back video.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

seems like some wanting to stir. quick look up shows a world wide outage, hour and half after the attack. also missles would use GPS, only real need for Starlink is to feed back video.

That's that cleared up then

 

[beorhthelm]

That's that cleared up then

probably not as i see it's on the way to being internet fact. another point is Starlink is not operational over Crimea - remember from the last story - so an outage would have zero impact.