[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Thunder Bolt]

A lot of young male Russians are at an airport trying to get out of the country.

[tweet]1572912188699951105[/tweet]

 

[sparkie]

Absolutely shocking to realise that if I was a Russian living in Russia I could have got a letter today sending me to the slaughter. All because of an insane old man.

No wonder they are not happy.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not sure if it's true but supposedly any man under 60 arrested at the protests in Russia is drafted for swift "training" prior to being shipped to the front line as cannon fodder.

That is insane.

I was angry enough with him for threatening us Brits with nuclear annihilation but this is even further down the barrel that the monster Putin is scraping.

we shouldnt believe everything anti-Russian. its insane because even Russians wouldnt want to send untrained people off the street to the front line. no real cannon fodder in a mechanised army, need fair bit of training or get in the way. they want ex-military to retrain first.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

we shouldnt believe everything anti-Russian. its insane because even Russians wouldnt want to send untrained people off the street to the front line. no real cannon fodder in a mechanised army, need fair bit of training or get in the way. they want ex-military to retrain first.

From the Kremlin news briefing this morning .......

In his regular briefing with reporters, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov also declined to deny Russian media reports that some anti-mobilisation protesters detained on Wednesday night had been given draft papers, saying:

This is not against the law.

 

[The Fifth Column]

we shouldnt believe everything anti-Russian. its insane because even Russians wouldnt want to send untrained people off the street to the front line. no real cannon fodder in a mechanised army, need fair bit of training or get in the way. they want ex-military to retrain first.

They've been doing exactly this since early on in the war, plenty of evidence from captured soldiers that they were conscripts, some with barely a week or two of training then trucked into Ukraine on the sly and thrown into battle, some with barely any weapons and supplies. Putin thinks nothing of sending thousands more untrained young men to their deaths. Don't believe the Russian propaganda that they are only recruiting ex-military with particular skills, there are already credible reports coming in after just a day of men with no military experience getting visits and being pressured into signing their call up papers. There will be competition amongst the governors of the various regions to trumpet their success at how many men they manage to recruit to see who can please Putin the most. You would have to be incredibly gullible to believe that this mobilisation is anything other than unwilling young men being press ganged into the Russian Army.

 

[atomised]

cant find it now but I read a twitter thread yesterday about how limited Russian training is in comparison to that of Western forces. it seemed to suggest standard training is very basic indeed then once that's out of the way off they go

 

[Icy Gull]

Interesting opinion and the mention of hardliners wanting to ramp up the war has been in my thoughts too. What if he is not the most deluded man in the Kremlin, and there are far worse pushing in the background who would love to lead their country to glorious victory from this mess

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=2a4b6dfb4e7e44caba0b9b6f3733bbc7

 

[beorhthelm]

They've been doing exactly this since early on in the war, plenty of evidence from captured soldiers that they were conscripts, some with barely a week or two of training then trucked into Ukraine on the sly and thrown into battle, some with barely any weapons and supplies. Putin thinks nothing of sending thousands more untrained young men to their deaths. Don't believe the Russian propaganda that they are only recruiting ex-military with particular skills, there are already credible reports coming in after just a day of men with no military experience getting visits and being pressured into signing their call up papers. There will be competition amongst the governors of the various regions to trumpet their success at how many men they manage to recruit to see who can please Putin the most. You would have to be incredibly gullible to believe that this mobilisation is anything other than unwilling young men being press ganged into the Russian Army.

im going by multiple western military and intelligence sources that have said otherwise. the "special operation" had limitations, one reason for the announced mobilisation is to allow them to call up reservists. there are conscripts, part of their army is a rolling national service, they are poorly equipped and supplied, this is part of their normal army. with the corruption maybe there are raw runts going to the frontline, its not part of thier miltary doctrine.

 

[Brovion]

Interesting opinion and the mention of hardliners wanting to ramp up the war has been in my thoughts too. What if he is not the most deluded man in the Kremlin, and there are far worse pushing in the background who would love to lead their country to glorious victory from this mess

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=2a4b6dfb4e7e44caba0b9b6f3733bbc7

Indeed. It's been mentioned before by myself and others that Putin ceasing to be leader (however it happens) is not necessarily a good thing. We can't just assume that the new leader will be an improvement (from a Western perspective) and that all will be sweetness and light. It could just as easily be someone more dangerous, more hardline, more right-wing who saw Putin as a bit of a soft pussycat. I think (with no evidence) that China might have a big say.


Editing to add: After all, being slightly facetious, is Liz Truss really an improvement on Boris Johnson?

 

[Weststander]

A lot of young male Russians are at an airport trying to get out of the country.

[tweet]1572912188699951105[/tweet]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62996212

Some witnesses estimated the queue of cars at the Upper Lars checkpoint to be some 5km (3 miles) long, while another group said it had taken seven hours to get across the border. Video from the scene showed some drivers leaving their cars or trucks temporarily in standstill traffic.

Georgia is one of the few neighbouring countries that Russians can enter without needing a apply for a visa. Finland, which shares a 1,300km (800 mile) border with Russia, does require a visa for travel, and also reported an increase in traffic overnight - but said it was at a manageable level.

Other destinations reachable by air - such as Istanbul, Belgrade or Dubai - have seen ticket prices skyrocket immediately after the military call-up was announced, with some destinations sold out completely. Turkish media have reported a large spike in one-way ticket sales, while remaining flights to non-visa destinations can cost thousands of euros.

line
'I will break my arm, my leg... anything to avoid the draft'
By Olesya Gerasimenko & Liza Fokht, BBC News

Sergei - not his real name - has already been called up.

The 26-year-old PhD student and lecturer was expecting a delivery of groceries the night before the Putin address, when two men arrived in civilian clothes handing him military papers to sign.

The Kremlin said only people who had done their military service and had special skills and combat experience would be called up.

But Sergei has no military experience and his stepfather is worried, as dodging the draft is a criminal offence in Russia.

 

[Eric the meek]

Heard on Polish TV that some Ukrainians are less than impressed with the protesters in Russia.

The reason - they didn't protest when they heard about Bucha or Izyum. But they are now protesting purely out of self-interest.

The Ukrainians have got a point.

 

[Icy Gull]

Heard on Polish TV that some Ukrainians are less than impressed with the protesters in Russia.

The reason - they didn't protest when they heard about Bucha or Izyum. But they are now protesting purely out of self-interest.

The Ukrainians have got a point.

You'd have to be one brave fecker to protest in Russia, the thought of being cannon fodder would ramp it up though

 

[Washboard Didgets]

The row z post is interesting but not for what it says.

I thought it would be a bot but the previous posts look like they have had a human type them. So not a bot.

Then I thought 'ah it will be a cut and paste Kremlin post, seen on many forums at the same time'. Again no, i cant see that form of words, or sections of it, anywhere.

So then it means someone has actually typed that. Someone, has lurked behind 15 other Brighton posts waiting for the opportunity to post that type of message.

Or, there is a Brighton fan who actually believes what they posted.

Either scenario is astounding.

Or it's a formerly genuine NSC account that's been compromised and is now being used by Russian propaganda.

Edit: or not, it's a recent joiner. Something well off with it.

I'm thinking it's a sock puppet account. Created either for trolling, with the creator currently sat at their keyboard having a good laugh (idiot), or created in order to post what they really believe but are too scared to have attached to their normal account (still an idiot). The RowZ naming implies familiarity IMO, so doesn't suggest Russian bot/propaganda farm.

Last night we finished watching 'The Undeclared War' a Channel 4 drama from a couple of months ago (available on All4). Who knows how accurate it is, but there were several parts relating to Russian manipulation of the UK with Twitter accounts and Facebook accounts posting things, and others agreeing and others disagreeing but all three parties were Russians sitting around the same desk to create a narrative and then their posts being automatically retweeted by bots.

So 'the bots' may be real people, with briefings and instructions on using British slang to seem more believable pushing out their chosen narrative across multiple accounts.

I know its technically fiction, but probably not far from the truth.

Either way recommend it (6 episodes) – well worth a watch.

 

[Gwylan]

Absolutely shocking to realise that if I was a Russian living in Russia I could have got a letter today sending me to the slaughter. All because of an insane old man.

No wonder they are not happy.

Seventy years old yet still relevant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0fxfog_ShY

 

[peterward]

Heard on Polish TV that some Ukrainians are less than impressed with the protesters in Russia.

The reason - they didn't protest when they heard about Bucha or Izyum. But they are now protesting purely out of self-interest.

The Ukrainians have got a point.

[tweet]1572633499995348993[/tweet]

 

[The Clamp]

They should join and then mass surrender on the first day. Then turn-coat and join the Ukrainians in their fight. But no. Fleeing when the war seems to have finally reached their letterbox.

 

[A1X]

Heard on Polish TV that some Ukrainians are less than impressed with the protesters in Russia.

The reason - they didn't protest when they heard about Bucha or Izyum. But they are now protesting purely out of self-interest.

The Ukrainians have got a point.

What makes you think the Russian population have heard about Bucha or Izumi?

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Last night we finished watching 'The Undeclared War' a Channel 4 drama from a couple of months ago (available on All4). Who knows how accurate it is, but there were several parts relating to Russian manipulation of the UK with Twitter accounts and Facebook accounts posting things, and others agreeing and others disagreeing but all three parties were Russians sitting around the same desk to create a narrative and then their posts being automatically retweeted by bots.

So 'the bots' may be real people, with briefings and instructions on using British slang to seem more believable pushing out their chosen narrative across multiple accounts.

I know its technically fiction, but probably not far from the truth.

Either way recommend it (6 episodes) – well worth a watch.

Yes that is very good, and I have on good authority, rather accurate especially regarding the twitter 'farms' and social media manipulation.

The Row Z post may well be one of those, however, the very specific language would make me think it had been posted elsewhere as a script. But as of earlier today I couldn't find it posted anywhere else. So to target nsc with a unique post after building a small profile is very labour intensive and inefficient method.

Therefore as [MENTION=33374]Audax[/MENTION] suggests it may well be 'one of us' with a second account or a sock puppet.

So in summary NSC is the target of Russia, one of our own believes what they have posted and wanted to convince others, or someone has spent a long time on a very unfunny joke.

Any of those are rather depressing!

 

[The Clamp]

What makes you think the Russian population have heard about Bucha or Izumi?

To be fair, they must have heard something or they wouldn’t currently be fleeing for the borders. If they were all totally brainwashed and ignorant, they’d be champing at the bit to fight for the Mother Land?

While I understand their reaction, I have lost some respect for Russians today. Brave enough to protest when the war affects them, barely a Tweet when it’s happening to their neighbours.

 

[Weststander]

The row z post is interesting but not for what it says.

I thought it would be a bot but the previous posts look like they have had a human type them. So not a bot.

Then I thought 'ah it will be a cut and paste Kremlin post, seen on many forums at the same time'. Again no, i cant see that form of words, or sections of it, anywhere.

So then it means someone has actually typed that. Someone, has lurked behind 15 other Brighton posts waiting for the opportunity to post that type of message.

Or, there is a Brighton fan who actually believes what they posted.

Either scenario is astounding.

Probably a second account.

They posted a token 14 Albion posts first in attempt to go under the radar, reluctantly biting their tongue on what they really wanted to say … a love of Putin/Ukraine are liars.