Ramprakash backed for Test recall

[sten_super]

I buy the 'no-touring' thing with Trescothick but find it strange that if he's not fit to play test cricket why he hangs with Somerset thus depriving a younger batsman of an opportunity?

Perhaps to earn a living - exactly the same reason that most of us do our jobs?!

And on the subject of the pressure of test cricket, what if the Australians had played Somerset, rather than Sussex, in a 4-day warm-up match. Are you telling me the Aussies would have been on their best behaviour because he was wearing a Somerset badge and not an England one?

For starters, the sledging in a friendly game against a county is going to be nothing like that in an Ashes Test. Are you deliberately trying to miss the point re: Tresco?

 

[Storer68]

Approaches by both Pietersen AND Strauss have been turned down by banger in slighly lower profile seasons than this.. Safe to say if he wasn't going to play against the West Indies and their pop gun attack, he's not going to play the Aussies in a do or die winner take all game


Thirteen months ago Trescothick announced his England career was over after his attempt to travel to Abu Dhabi for Somerset’s preseason tour ended at Heathrow Airport in an emotional recurrence of the depressive illness that forced him home from the previous two winter tours to India and Australia.
Towards the close of last summer, during which the 33-year-old left-hander scored three centuries in domestic one-day and Twenty20 cricket, he was contacted by the England skipper — then Kevin Pietersen — and asked if he would consider a
one-day comeback.

Trescothick reluctantly rejected that offer because the risk to his health through trying to return to the international stage was too great.

Yet, after a winter in which England’s failure to replace him at the top of the order in limited-overs cricket was once again highlighted — they managed just two hundreds
in 10 one-day matches against India and West Indies, Trescothick has made 12 in 123 matches — Strauss rang to ask whether he might be able to make himself available to England for a specialist role, home and away, starting with the World Twenty20 in England in early June.
Sadly, for England, the answer from the batsman considered England’s finest in Test and limited-overs cricket in recent times remained the same. He now hopes to end all
speculation by stressing the decision to be final and irrevocable.

Even though Trescothick was flattered that Strauss, his former Ashes winning opening partner and close friend, should contact him directly, he insisted last night: ‘After taking
everything into consideration, I reluctantly had to tell Strauss that playing for England again was just not possible.
‘I had no choice but to say no. I might be wrong, but I still believe that if it was as simple as turning up and batting for England, I could do it and succeed.
‘Playing cricket for England was the great ambition of my life and, until I became ill, I loved everything about it, so not being able to do so now is a source of great regret. I miss the buzz and the stage and the chance to put my ability to the sternest test,
and I’d be lying if I said I haven’t thought about it often.

 

[Pavilionaire]

My guess is that Trescothick wouldn't have played in a tour match - as we dropped Prior, Yasir and Goodwin (hey, we thought he was our best batsman then).

Which pundits did you see suggest he should return? I've read quite a few Ashes reports today and didn't see a single one suggest him (apart from some bloke in the Mirror who I'd never heard of). In fact, the vast majority of commentators say what I do and that changes should be kept to a minimum - one or two at the most.

If Trescothick wasn't ever going to play for England why wouldn't he play a tour match vs the Aussies? Is that more pressure than, say, a Lord's final?

Yeah, I read the article in the Mirror - the bloke you've never heard of will be Mike Walters who's been a cricket correspondent with them for 12 years.

Justin Langer himself has bigged up Trescothick, questioning the selection more for the implications of picking a guy who won't tour more than his ability to perform at test level.

It's a shame Trescothick himself has now ruled himself out and, personally, I think it's a shame that he hasn't retired already. Many players who do retire do it to make way for younger men with the potential who are not the finished article but deserve a chance, and I admire that in a player. The Aussies themselves have been doing this for years.

Unlike football the England cricket team has a smaller pool of players to choose from and I think that it's no wonder we have a dearth of batting talent when there are so many 30-something England test failures still carving out a career in English cricket.

Jason Gallian, John Crawley, Vikram Solanki, Mal Loye, Anthony McGrath, Craig White, Darren Maddy, Jim Troughton, Usman Afzaal, Darren Bicknell and Trescothick himself are players who block, or who have blocked, opportunity.

I don't BLAME them, but the culture of county cricket is such that it's no surprise the young players just aren't coming through. What we really need is to have our youngsters toughen up in, say, Australia or South Africa. That experience was the making of Alec Stewart.

 

[sten_super]

I'm sorry but haven't half spouted some bollocks on this thread.

Looking at the Sheffield Shield batting averages (just to give a flavour) I've straight away picked out Damien Wright, Chris Rogers, Brad Hodge and Martin Love as players in their 30s who will never play again for Australia but who continue to play first class. I'm sure there's many more. What exactly do you want? Should each player only be allowed to play first class cricket if the ECB deems them good enough to potentially play for England? What absolute nonsense - these guys have as much of a right to make a living as anyone else!

 

[The Spanish]

I think the ramps/key debate is the single most depressing thing to come out of the 4th test debacle. But up here in SE London, it has been going on for some time as you can imagine.

ramps will crack up and fatty does not really care any more. f***ing embarassing conversation, the aussies must be loving it. Utter nonsense.

 

[shwoody1]

if they bring anyone in it has to be trott or joyce, but my guess is they will leave it and jiggle the order a bit. if they cant get runs at the oval they wont get them anywhere, was it patel they sent home last year for being overweight? think that rules out rob key!

 

[vegster]

Could David Steele do a job ? he's only 67 and has a test average of 42 ?

 

[Gwylan]

If Trescothick wasn't ever going to play for England why wouldn't he play a tour match vs the Aussies? Is that more pressure than, say, a Lord's final?

Because counties often rest senior players for tourist games - that's been the norm for years (although Sussex went too far one year and rested the entire first team and didn't get a tourist game for a couple of seasons). Nothing to do with Tres's mental state - that's the way it is, I bet Langer wouldn't have played either.

I sort of agree with you about the older players though - the big problem is that far too many are hanging around for benefits - something that has acted to the detriment of the domestic game for years. I think the preponderence of Kolpak players has a much more detrimental effect however,

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Pav - it's a mental illness. He can play county cricket as well as ever but a terrified of some other situations. It's hard to explain and probably impossible for Tresco to understand himself but that's the nature of mental illness - it's in his head and it defied logical explanation. Let's leave the guy alone and move on.

 

[keaton]

Pav, that is some utter rubbish you've spouted on this thread.

1, Stop debating whether a mental illness is an injury

2, How are young bowlers going to develop if they don't play against high quality players in the county cricket? And don't you think young batsmen develop will be aided by playing alongside or against high quality opposition? If Somerset aren't developing young English players it's because they've recruited too many Kolpak's not because Trescho's still playing for them. And if all the old star player's pulled out of County Cricket to let youngsters play there would be no-one to watch it and it would be even more f***ed than it is now

 

[Mendoza]

Bell and Bopara have to go I think

The replacements become an issue, especially as Collingwood has done very little (since thatt second innings at Cardiff). That only leaves Strauss, Cook and Prior as batsmen that have scored runs. Would that make a good top 3? Debatable

I cant see how Ramprakash can be the answer? It is a lot to ask of Trott to make his debut in this, but Bell and Bopara are about as good as a traffic cone and can of coke coming in at 3 and 4.

Freddie is fit, so he and Broad make a good start to the lower order with Swann to follow.

If the bowlers stop bowling short, and bowl to the same length which The Aussies took 20 wickets in the last test, then there will be less of a problem. Not sure what the game plan or mentality is with endless bouncers!
Flintoff, Anderson, Broad and Harmison could be good with Swann providing they pitch it up.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Bell and Bopara have to go I think

The replacements become an issue, especially as Collingwood has done very little (since thatt second innings at Cardiff). That only leaves Strauss, Cook and Prior as batsmen that have scored runs. Would that make a good top 3? Debatable

I cant see how Ramprakash can be the answer? It is a lot to ask of Trott to make his debut in this, but Bell and Bopara are about as good as a traffic cone and can of coke coming in at 3 and 4.

Freddie is fit, so he and Broad make a good start to the lower order with Swann to follow.

If the bowlers stop bowling short, and bowl to the same length which The Aussies took 20 wickets in the last test, then there will be less of a problem. Not sure what the game plan or mentality is with endless bouncers!
Flintoff, Anderson, Broad and Harmison could be good with Swann providing they pitch it up.

I would agree with most of this but I think Ramps should be considered, he must know every blade of grass on the Oval. It's a "one-off" stituation and we need someone who is going to hold up an end, assuming of course we get to bat first.
If we don't i do fear that the aussies will just get in and stick in, unless Freddy is back to his best. Dammit both Laker and Lock are dead now...how about Tuffers? Save his wittering on radio.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I would not drop Bell for this test, move him to 5 and Collingwood to 4, gives Bell a bit more protection.

I think Bopara has to be left out of the 5 test, his confidence looks shot at present. Do not bother with sending to the Lions tour in the winter, get him playing some grade (or State ideally), cricket down under, learn about how to play pace bowling and what to leave alone.

Regarding his replacement, well Trott is next in line, but it would be foolish for him to be debut in the last test. I cannot believe I am going to suggest this, but play Key. He has test experience and some sucess against the Aussies. Also his weakness is against swing bowling and the Oval tends to favour seamers who can get some bounce and spinners, so he should be OK there.

 

[Danny-Boy]

I would not drop Bell for this test, move him to 5 and Collingwood to 4, gives Bell a bit more protection.

I think Bopara has to be left out of the 5 test, his confidence looks shot at present. Do not bother with sending to the Lions tour in the winter, get him playing some grade (or State ideally), cricket down under, learn about how to play pace bowling and what to leave alone.

Regarding his replacement, well Trott is next in line, but it would be foolish for him to be debut in the last test. I cannot believe I am going to suggest this, but play Key. He has test experience and some sucess against the Aussies. Also his weakness is against swing bowling and the Oval tends to favour seamers who can get some bounce and spinners, so he should be OK there.

Another "Anyone but a Brown-Hatter, then....

 

[Gwylan]

Regarding his replacement, well Trott is next in line, but it would be foolish for him to be debut in the last test. I cannot believe I am going to suggest this, but play Key. He has test experience and some sucess against the Aussies. Also his weakness is against swing bowling and the Oval tends to favour seamers who can get some bounce and spinners, so he should be OK there.

Yeah, and if we lose, I'm sure we'd lick the Aussies in the pie-eating contest afterwards


You're right though, Trott can't be the answer. He has got a great average but he gets them on flat track at Edgbaston. I'd rather we looked for players who scored their runs at Trent Bridge, the Rose Bowl or the Riverside, rather than people who do well at The Oval or Taunton.

Carberry might be worth a shout - particularly if he does well in the Lions match.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Yeah, and if we lose, I'm sure we'd lick the Aussies in the pie-eating contest afterwards


You're right though, Trott can't be the answer. He has got a great average but he gets them on flat track at Edgbaston. I'd rather we looked for players who scored their runs at Trent Bridge, the Rose Bowl or the Riverside, rather than people who do well at The Oval or Taunton.

Carberry might be worth a shout - particularly if he does well in the Lions match.

Again with Carberry, it would mean him making his debut. I think this is the wrong game to chuck somebody in for. In reality Key will probably do well on the fast tracks in South Africa as well, so might well be back anyway.

 

[Mendoza]

whats Graham Thorpe doing, he was BRILLIO

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Carl Hopkinson.

End of thread.

 

[jakarta]

Carl Hopkinson.

End of thread.

At least Hoppo has scored a century against the Aussies during this tour......

My shout:

Bopara & Bell out (the latter never to return)

Joyce & Trott in

Won't happen & we will slump to a loss as Flintoff breaks down and the Aussies get 500 plus in their first innings......

 

[Pavilionaire]

Pav, that is some utter rubbish you've spouted on this thread.

1, Stop debating whether a mental illness is an injury

2, How are young bowlers going to develop if they don't play against high quality players in the county cricket? And don't you think young batsmen develop will be aided by playing alongside or against high quality opposition? If Somerset aren't developing young English players it's because they've recruited too many Kolpak's not because Trescho's still playing for them. And if all the old star player's pulled out of County Cricket to let youngsters play there would be no-one to watch it and it would be even more f***ed than it is now

1. It's not just me who thinks he should be in the frame for a test spot, and it's a f***ing weird "illness" if you ask me, but he's ruled himself out so there we go.

2. My point was that there was a disproportionate number of old lags still in the county game that, ultimately, contribute to the poor state of English cricket.

Michael Vaughan had it right when he said the county game is there to serve the England team, and if he thinks he's not good enough to pay for England then it's time for him to retire as a first-class player. Not my words - his words.

My last point on this thread is that it really doesn't make any difference WHO gets picked out of Trott, Key, Carberry, Denly, Bell, Bopara, Panesar, Onions, Harmison because there's nothing to suggest these players will make any difference.

We won the Ashes last time because we had big personalities in Vaughan, Pietersen, Flintoff, a pace quarter who gelled and a shrewd coach who complemented his captain.

Sadly, it looks as though it's all about to fall on Flintoff's shoulders, just as it did Down Under two years ago when we were cuffed 5-0. Hopefully, someone in the England camp will hand round the Langer email and get every player to digest the contents so that they are as fired up as Ponting was when he came out to bat to a chorus of boos at Headingley, then proceeded to take the game away from us.