Railway to reopen?

[Theatre of Trees]

The NIMBY in Hamsey might need to remember that the original line ran through the village but was detoured through Lewes later on. This is something that should happen though there may well be complications at Isfield where the Lavender Line is and Barcombe Mills where the old station is now a private residence.

 

[British Bulldog]

With a nimby/ or nimby's involved it will drag on for years and the cost will eventually outweigh the benefits of re-opening the line!

f**ing nimby's

 

[Zeitgeist]

Back in the early days of the Falmer proposal in the last century, the club held an open evening at the Gardener Arts centre to try and sell the idea to the good folk of Falmer. During the predictedly heated question and answer sesion, some bizarre freak asked Martin Perry if the Albion would be prepared to finance the rebuilding of the Lewes to Uckfield Railway line as part of their intigrated transport policy for Falmer! Perrys answer I believe, he was in the business of building Stadiums, not railway lines.

Maybe the Lewes to Uckfield link will be reopened before Falmer gets built?

 

[clapham_gull]

Suggesting that a railway line ruins a rural atmosphere has to be the most stupid and idiotic short sighted comment I have heard in a very very long time.

As someone who doesn't drive, the only way I can travel back to the rural Sussex village I was brought up in is by getting getting the train.

What ruins the rural atmosphere for that villages inhabitants is idiots driving through it at high speed at night.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

There is a popular misconception the Uckfield to Lewes link fell victim to transport minister Richard Beeching's cuts in the Sixties. In truth the line survived that threat, satisfying inspectors it was well enough used, while others in Sussex and around the country were axed.

The decision to cut the railway was instead made by East Sussex County Council, anxious to clear the way for its new Phoenix Causeway road into Lewes.

I wish the Argus could get its facts right.

Beeching was NEVER a transport minister. He was Chairman of the British Railways Board. He wasn't responsible for this particular closure, though.

And the decision to cut the railway was NOT made by East Sussex County Council. It was made by BR, and approved by the Minister, after a Public Inquiry into the closure proposal. The closure did, however, allow ESCC to go ahead with the Phoenix Causeway road scheme.

Development in Lewes effectively prevents the pre-1969 route ever being re-established. That's why there is talk of diverting the route via Hamsey, to follow the alignment that closed in 1868 (yes, eighteen sixty eight). The problem with that is that it means that it would be impossible to run Uckfield - Brighton through trains without instituting a complicated reversing manoeuvre at Lewes that would add significantly to the running time and compromise the quality of service available.

 

[bigc]

If they can't run Uckfield to Brighton trains, then surely the bottom line(money) won't be in it for them and they won't do it?

 

[British Bulldog]

Rail travel should be the way forward in this country! It just needs somebody in a position of power to pull they're finger out of they're arse and put the investment into the railway it needs.

Statisticly it's still the safest way to travel in Britain.

 

[bigc]

I agree with Lorrenzo!

This is the age of the train....seriously

I was reading the amount of cuts made to BR by Thatcher during the '80s and it was incredible the service continued with such weak investment.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

If they can't run Uckfield to Brighton trains, then surely the bottom line(money) won't be in it for them and they won't do it?

That's an unavoidable conclusion of much of the work that has been done on this matter over the past twenty years (some of which was commissioned by me, when I was a transport planner at ESCC).

When Connex put in the bid to renew their franchise (at the time they lost out to Southern), they included a proposal to re-open Lewes-Uckfield (via Hamsey) as a new route to London from Eastbourne. The plan was that Eastbourne - Victoria trains would go via Uckfield, instead of Haywards Heath and Gatwick, thereby freeing up more capacity on the Brighton Main Line to enable more Brighton - Victoria / Thameslink trains to run.

Not a bad idea. But, for various reasons - not the least of which was the uselessness of Connex - the Strategic Rail Authority weren't interested.

 

[British Bulldog]

I agree with Lorrenzo!

This is the age of the train....seriously

I was reading the amount of cuts made to BR by Thatcher during the '80s and it was incredible the service continued with such weak investment.

Privatisation was one thing that never worked on the railway. It's still not working now. If somebody really had the balls to put the money into the railway where it should be spent then you would see some improvements!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Development in Lewes effectively prevents the pre-1969 route ever being re-established.

If the 1969 route was to be re-opened, it would mean demolishing Forfar's Bread Shop in Lewes. I'm sure the Cutress family would object.

 

[British Bulldog]

If the 1969 route was to be re-opened, it would mean demolishing Forfar's Bread Shop in Lewes. I'm sure the Cutress family would object.

That would be a shame!!!

 

[British Bulldog]

problem with that is that it means that it would be impossible to run Uckfield - Brighton through trains without instituting a complicated reversing manoeuvre at Lewes that would add significantly to the running time and compromise the quality of service available.

Whats complicated about it LB?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Whats complicated about it LB?

It's all to do with the fact that Lewes Station is Y-shaped.

Uckfield - Brighton trains would enter Lewes on platform 1 (the right hand arm of the Y), stop to drop passengers off and take on a second driver (and wait for a green signal to go any further). Then they would have to leave Lewes station (going towards Eastbourne - the leg of the Y), stop about half a mile east, reverse (crossing the Eastbourne - Haywards Heath line) and enter Lewes station again (for a second stop, at platform 4 - the left hand arm of the Y - to pick up passengers and drop off the spare driver), before proceeding onwards to Brighton.

This manoeuvre would not only be slow (about seven minutes, I reckon), but could easily delay other trains passing through Lewes station.

 

[The Large One]

The problem with that is that it means that it would be impossible to run Uckfield - Brighton through trains without instituting a complicated reversing manoeuvre at Lewes that would add significantly to the running time and compromise the quality of service available.

Or you could just change trains at Lewes.

Point is, when there are engineering works at, say, Hassocks, trains often go via Lewes and have to perform this manoeuvre anyway.

 

[British Bulldog]

It's all to do with the fact that Lewes Station is Y-shaped.

Uckfield - Brighton trains would enter Lewes on platform 1 (the right hand arm of the Y), stop to drop passengers off and take on a second driver (and wait for a green signal to go any further). Then they would have to leave Lewes station (going towards Eastbourne - the leg of the Y), stop about half a mile east, reverse (crossing the Eastbourne - Haywards Heath line) and enter Lewes station again (for a second stop, at platform 4 - the left hand arm of the Y - to pick up passengers and drop off the spare driver), before proceeding onwards to Brighton.

This manoeuvre would not only be slow (about seven minutes, I reckon), but could easily delay other trains passing through Lewes station.

No. The driver takes the train from platform 1 down behind the shunt signal then changes end's walking along the walkway that was built for them. The passenger's don't have to get off the the train because the signalling system allows that move to be done with passengers on board. If you've got a good Driver the move can be done in 3 mins. And that includes setting up his CSR.

Sorry LB I forgot to mention I used to signal Trains there so I am familiar with the layout.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Or you could just change trains at Lewes.

Point is, when there are engineering works at, say, Hassocks, trains often go via Lewes and have to perform this manoeuvre anyway.

On a Sunday - when fewer trains are running.


The fact that a change of train would be necessary at Lewes would discourage people from using the train, especially when there is a more frequent direct bus service from Brighton to Uckfield (currently charging much lower fares than any ticket on offer on the railway).

Even when the Lewes - Uckfield line WAS open, more people used the bus to travel between Uckfield and Brighton than ever used the trains.

 

[London Irish]

No. The driver takes the train from platform 1 down behind the shunt signal then changes end's walking along the walkway that was built for them. The passenger's don't have to get off the the train because the signalling system allows that move to be done with passengers on board. If you've got a good Driver the move can be done in 3 mins. And that includes setting up his CSR.

Sorry LB I forgot to mention I used to signal Trains there so I am familiar with the layout.

Out of interest, is that the same procedure they use when engineering works diverts trains through Lewes to Brighton? Having been on many of these trains, it seems the train moves off quite a distance from Lewes station to effect its turn, but of course that may be just the perspective of someone sitting on the train rather than the reality. On every occasion, the driver just walks through the train past the passengers to the other end rather than use any walkway.

On the subject of the line reopening, hope it happens but these things take time!

One of the very first stories I wrote for a local newspaper back in 1991 was campaigners getting together to try to reopen the Chandlers Ford railway station that links Eastleigh with Romsey in Hampshire. It was closed in 1969, superb timing that as a vast new housing estate was then built afterwards at CF.

I never thought the opening would happen as it was discussed by council committees for years. But amazingly, it finally did in 2003, a bizzare long delay considering the line was still operational! So on that timetable I would expect the Sussex line to reopen sometime towards 2020 at the earliest given how much extra work is required!

http://www.railwatch.org.uk/backtrack/rw096/rw096p20.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandlers_Ford_railway_station

An interesting site containing maps and information from the Sussex campaigners, the Wealden Line Campaign.

http://home.clara.net/wealdenline/

 

[British Bulldog]

Out of interest, is that the same procedure they use when engineering works diverts trains through Lewes to Brighton? Having been on many of these trains, it seems the train moves off quite a distance from Lewes station to effect its turn, but of course that may be just the perspective of someone sitting on the train rather than the reality. On every occasion, the driver just walks through the train past the passengers to the other end rather than use any walkway.

Depends on the length of the train and where you're sitting as to how far you seem like you're going really! The walkway was built a few years back to accomodate the drivers who did'nt have the unit's they could walk through, It's still in use as far as I know and it's far safer to walk through a train than to walk trackside!

The turn round time of a train is still far quicker than it used to be under the old driver at each end of the train was!

 

[Gwylan]

It would be great if the line were to reopened and while they're at it could they have a line between Lewes and Hastings (to Ashford and Rye) that doesn't involve pulling into Eastbourne and pulling out again.

One other point: is it fair to call the objectors NIMBYs. Aren't NIMBYs people who are in favour of a particular project but don't want it built near them (the Hollingdean waste protestors are classic NIMBYs)? AFAICS, the people at Hamsey don't just want a line built near them, they don't want a new line at all and they must be BANANAs.