Question. If labour were still in charge would we be in a worse state Greece & Italy

[fork me]

it may be a subtle point, but was the money spent well? investment was needed, but did it go to the right places for the right benefit, or did headline projects take precedence and maintenance costs sprial uncontrolled? some of the PFI deals are eye wateringly poor value, with guaranteed profit margins built in. ie, spent what you like and we'll give you 15% on top. they say many NHS trusts are technically insolvent. i note that after 15 years spending, some schools still had classes of 33 in labs bulit for 28... i read a few years ago that the total spent on repairing schools in the period to 2007 was as much as estimated to re-build every school, which suggests a slightly poor managment of the resources. at that time they were announcing additional funding to repair the schools needed due to Tory underfunding. where the f*** did all the money go then?

Haven't really got much to argue about against this. It's the way it goes, the Tories run public buildings and services into the goruns with ludicrous underfunding, Labout try to put it right, but are so incompetent with the finances it costs a lot more than it should. What we need is something between the two, but to make claims that all of the money was wasted or that Labour just spent money of public sector wages is equally as ridiculous as claiming they did everything right.

 

[fork me]

And what a complete load of old bollocks that is. I'm not sure what is the most stupid aspect to it: equating grades with earnings or this ignorant and clueless assumption that EVERYTHING is shared under socialism with no concept of keeping some of it for yourself.

As I say, utter utter turd from start to finish.

Quite, it also makes the assumption that under capitalism, everyone that is rich has earned it and everyone that works hard is rich. Something that is blatantly not true.

 

[Simster]

Quite, it also makes the assumption that under capitalism, everyone that is rich has earned it and everyone that works hard is rich. Something that is blatantly not true.

You'd think people would think better of posting that sort of rubbish at a time when chief execs at FTSE 100 firms has sky rocketed to an average £3.6m while everyone else has their pensions attacked, pay freezes or loses their job (30 people out of 300 at my firm yesterday).

Colour me completely disillusioned with capitalism at the moment. And the sort of crap, patronising sermon posted by tAM do nothing but reinforce my view.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The country would be in no different shape if still under Labour, the money you think the current government is saving by all the cuts, will just be spent elsewhere, helping out the high earners, banks, ministers and other stuck up Tory cronies who are a little worried about their winter ski trip budget for the next 10 years!

This , we would still be f***ed by the "pretend" Tories. They're both as bad as one another.

 

[Flex Your Head]

An email I received yesterday;


Subject a lesson in Socialism

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Absolute drivel from start to finish. About as convincing as this...

This Professor would have looked like a bit of an idiot if the students had all joined together, and helped out the struggling students, and shared revision notes and textbooks, and if the knowledge that their own hard work would benefit the whole class had spurred them on out of a sense of shared purpose with their classmates, and everyone's grades had improved, and the lazy students had worked harder as they did not wish to let their friends down, and everyone had got As.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Absolute drivel from start to finish. About as convincing as this...

This Professor would have looked like a bit of an idiot if the students had all joined together, and helped out the struggling students, and shared revision notes and textbooks, and if the knowledge that their own hard work would benefit the whole class had spurred them on out of a sense of shared purpose with their classmates, and everyone's grades had improved, and the lazy students had worked harder as they did not wish to let their friends down, and everyone had got As.

Couldn't agree more. I can't help it that people send me crap, but I knew that it would provoke a reaction on here

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

And what a complete load of old bollocks that is. I'm not sure what is the most stupid aspect to it: equating grades with earnings or this ignorant and clueless assumption that EVERYTHING is shared under socialism with no concept of keeping some of it for yourself.

As I say, utter utter turd from start to finish.

The clue is in the fact that it was written by one of our American cousins.

 

[Zesh Rehman]

Youre wrong im afraid.

 

[Dandyman]

We have been f***ed by international capitalism and the Tories are determined to make the majority of us pay for it while handing out tax cuts and subsidies to their chums. Labour would be (marginally) better but until they develop a grown up critique of capitalism deregulated or regulated they don't offer long term solutions.

 

[beorhthelm]

Absolute drivel from start to finish. About as convincing as this...

This Professor would have looked like a bit of an idiot if the students had all joined together, and helped out the struggling students, and shared revision notes and textbooks, and if the knowledge that their own hard work would benefit the whole class had spurred them on out of a sense of shared purpose with their classmates, and everyone's grades had improved, and the lazy students had worked harder as they did not wish to let their friends down, and everyone had got As.

im sure the tale is apocryphal, but there's a element of truth. but its closer than the utopian version here. in fact i've first hand experiance, i was fortunate enough to go to a university that valued group work. within a term you noticed how some students were carried by other members. nice enough people, but by the third term you could tell there were some you wouldnt want to sit near to on the day assignements were given out, especially if you got on well and might feel obliged to join up with. there was a strong corrolation with those who didnt pass through to the second year, which kinda shows that neither version is correct and its survivial of the best adapted.

 

[Albion Dan]

The bare facts are that the Tories are caning the vunerable on a idealistic crusade that is leading us nowhere, and Labour are unelectable with that total cock end milliband in charge. Thanks for that unions, what a mother of an own goal.

The big issue is that the political system has ultimately failed. The tories would have done no different in the lead up to the banking crisis, and labour completely failed to really raise living standards for those that really needed it when on power.

Even worse, no one really has a clue how to fix the mess.

Maybe it needs to really collapse for people to really get back to the important things and a real fresh start?

 

[trueblue]

I disagree. The plan that Darling was following was a balance between cuts and encouraging growth which were bearing fruit. The osborne approach, whilst popular with the analysts because it talks macho about cuts actually delivers less than 10% more savings whilst causing concern and uncertainty which wrecks confidence. This increases spending on welfare and reduces tax income thus negating the additional cuts

Sounds about right to me. As soon as Osborne began talking up the recession and going on and on about the dire situation so the Tories could have a free hand with their cuts, we were screwed. Kill confidence - kill the economy. Now they're round to building roads etc to stimulate growth which any A level economics student could have suggested in the first place.

The recession wasn't the Tories' fault (and not entirely Labour's) but they've done a great job of making it deeper and longer.

 

[Igor Gurinovich?]

Sounds about right to me. As soon as Osborne began talking up the recession and going on and on about the dire situation so the Tories could have a free hand with their cuts, we were screwed. Kill confidence - kill the economy. Now they're round to building roads etc to stimulate growth which any A level economics student could have suggested in the first place.

The recession wasn't the Tories' fault (and not entirely Labour's) but they've done a great job of making it deeper and longer.

to cut a long story short..yes