Premiership clubs are receiving more money than ever, and are in more debt than ever.

[Colossal Squid]

But it would have to be Europe wide otherwise our clubs start losing their competitiveness and would therefore lose their investors.

It's interesting to see the success of the Bundesliga in all this. They still charge reasonable amounts of money to fans but they don't have the revenue of our premiership clubs so have far fewer big name players. HOWEVER you don't tend to hear their fans complaining, I think they just pay less attention to European competition to focus on domestic honours, which can actually be won by a far greater number of clubs. In the last ten years five different teams have enjoyed a German championship title. They also average higher gates than Serie A, Ligue 1 and our Premiership.

Given that we as lower league football fans have NO experience in European football is it so hard to conceive of a top flight where the glory ISN'T all about success in European competition? I'd quite like it if a whole number of clubs were fighting for the Premiership rather than slogging it out with each other for the 4th Champions League place.

Drop the gate prices and stop paying ludicrous player salaries and yes we'd see less "world class" stars tearing up the place BUT we'd see a lot more genuine competition and isn't that what it's all about? After all I've never watched Brighton in a top flight match but it doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed following them all my life.

 

[clapham_gull]

But it would have to be Europe wide otherwise our clubs start losing their competitiveness and would therefore lose their investors.

It's interesting to see the success of the Bundesliga in all this. They still charge reasonable amounts of money to fans but they don't have the revenue of our premiership clubs so have far fewer big name players. HOWEVER you don't tend to hear their fans complaining, I think they just pay less attention to European competition to focus on domestic honours, which can actually be won by a far greater number of clubs. In the last ten years five different teams have enjoyed a German championship title. They also average higher gates than Serie A, Ligue 1 and our Premiership.

Given that we as lower league football fans have NO experience in European football is it so hard to conceive of a top flight where the glory ISN'T all about success in European competition? I'd quite like it if a whole number of clubs were fighting for the Premiership rather than slogging it out with each other for the 4th Champions League place.

Drop the gate prices and stop paying ludicrous player salaries and yes we'd see less "world class" stars tearing up the place BUT we'd see a lot more genuine competition and isn't that what it's all about? After all I've never watched Brighton in a top flight match but it doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed following them all my life.

I'm not sure it would make sense to individually cap a players wages, if you set a realistic maximum some clubs will still reach it even they can't afford it.

I think measures need to put in place to gradually (over a period of a few years) deflate the whole thing.

I genuinely think the problem is that we have a system in place that allows super rich clubs to appear out of nowhere and success in the champions league dictates the ability to qualify the next year.

What's happening is other clubs are getting into trouble just trying to keep up.

It's the lack of competition that's causing the problem.

For the record, I think a Champions League playoff is a good idea.

Radically, it would be an interesting exercise to distribute the Premiership winnings equally for a few seasons....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's interesting to see the success of the Bundesliga in all this. I think they just pay less attention to European competition to focus on domestic honours, which can actually be won by a far greater number of clubs.

And concentrate on their national team doing well. 13 finals versus our piss poor 1...and that was on home turf. And I dont think this is going to change in the near future. Even under Capello we still seem to be beat the lesser teams and not beat the better teams.

 

[Colossal Squid]

Good call. Concentrating on domestic success makes for a more competitive top flight AND an international side that ALWAYS performs when it matters.

Who wouldn't like that?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not sure it would make sense to individually cap a players wages, if you set a realistic maximum some clubs will still reach it even they can't afford it.

I think measures need to put in place to gradually (over a period of a few years) deflate the whole thing.

I genuinely think the problem is that we have a system in place that allows super rich clubs to appear out of nowhere and success in the champions league dictates the ability to qualify the next year.

What's happening is other clubs are getting into trouble just trying to keep up.

It's the lack of competition that's causing the problem.

For the record, I think a Champions League playoff is a good idea.

Radically, it would be an interesting exercise to distribute the Premiership winnings equally for a few seasons....

To be entirely honest I dont really give a f*** about the Premiership. I would actually enjoy it if it just imploded.

 

[Stat Brother]

The state of football in this country is in a disgusting mess, and it is all because of money (stating the bloody obvious i know!!) and i don't care how short lived a footballers life is, it is there choice of work anyway, but clubs that are allowing players to earn in the region of £100,000 a WEEK!! are mad, nothing, nobody or no one, can sustain those sort of financial pressures, it is and has been for far to long, a joke.

Which reminds me of a good but not exactly 'worlds greatest' basketball player (and probably Cashley Cole relative), who spat out the line:-

'$30 million, I can't feed my family on only $30 million'

 

[Stat Brother]

I just thought I would check (I know, AFTER I had already post it, as fact)

Sprewell ($14.6M) demands new deal: 'Got family to feed'
The Dominion Post ^ | 2004-11-02 | Associated Press
Posted on Tue Nov 02 2004 14:39:02 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time) by the_devils_advocate_666

Latrell Sprewell says he'll ask to be traded if the Minnesota Timberwolves don't sign him to a contract extension by Wednesday night's opener. ''I think this thing is heading towards me leaving, personally,'' Sprewell told reporters after a practice this week. Earlier this preseason, Sprewell said he wanted a contract extension by the Wolves' opener, against the New York Knicks, or he would ask for a sign-and-trade deal or wait to become a free agent. Either way, Sprewell said he didn't want to negotiate during the season. But he took a tougher stance Sunday. Asked if he would play out the season and test the free-agent market, Sprewell said: ''Why would I want to help them win a title? They're not doing anything for me. I'm at risk. I have a lot of risk here. I got my family to feed.'' Sprewell is due to make $14.6 million this year. Sprewell, 34, described the team's latest offer, reported to be worth between $27 million and $30 million over three years, as ''insulting.''

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I could be wrong but didnt Real Madrid sell their original training ground for probably treble Ronaldo's fee as it was in a prime real estate location in Madrid a few years ago.

They built an out of town one obviously.

Also I believe that they recouped most of that Ronaldo outlay on replica shirts and stuff.

Conspiracy theorists also reckon they are bankrolled by the Govt/Banks. Any "debt" they have is essentially written off.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And 18 Premiership clubs owe 3.5 billion. This is more than the rest of Europe's 732 licensed clubs combined. This does not even include West Ham and Pompey as they do not hold UEFA licenses due to their financial problems.

Seems a bit f***ed to me.

The Premiership clubs will collapse in on themselves as surely as those halfwit investment banks did. The level of debt is unsustainable and in the grand scheme of things nobody would give that much of a f*** if they suddenly weren't there. IMHO, like.

 

[Colossal Squid]

I could be wrong but didnt Real Madrid sell their original training ground for probably treble Ronaldo's fee as it was in a prime real estate location in Madrid a few years ago.

They built an out of town one obviously.

Also I believe that they recouped most of that Ronaldo outlay on replica shirts and stuff.

Whilst I don't doubt CR9's marketability the idea that he was responsible for an ADDITIONAL 1.75m shirt sales (@ £40 a pop) seems like a big ask to me.

 

[The Modfather]

The Premiership clubs will collapse in on themselves as surely as those halfwit investment banks did. The level of debt is unsustainable and in the grand scheme of things nobody would give that much of a f*** if they suddenly weren't there. IMHO, like.

Spot on.

It has been proved with the UK economy, banks etc that a business cannot run on debt indefinately.

More premier league clubs will collapse in the next few years, and I for one will not be sorry.

We are told that the EPL is the holy grail as it brings untold riches, £50/£60 million per annum, yet these clubs are spending more than this each year on salaries.

As for the supporters of Bolton, Hull etc calling for there managers heads when they keep there respective clubs in the EPL, well, they deserve what is invariably coming there way.

Dont even get me started on the champions league. The most pointless competition of all time.

 

[Seasider78]

The Germans have it spot on a competitive league with plenty of home grown players and clubs in the black.

However I can't see our top division ever going back to that. If anything the arrogance of the premier league will at least see it spiral into oblivion. All the time it continues to be described as the 'best league in the world' and bollocks spouted that it would be poorer without Torres and co on 100k + a week then nothing will change

 

[The Modfather]

I remember reading that Platini was proposing to ban any club in debt from playing in the champions league.

Obviously, his main reason for doing so, is to stop English clubs reaching the final every year.

But would this really be such a bad policy?

 

[Gritt23]

I will bow to better knowledge, but I think you hit the nail with 'negotiate their own individual TV rights deals'.

That's not an easy thing to do right though, and I think Serie A got themselves into a pickle with it a few years back and abandoned the idea.

Just imagine that rather than blanket Sky coverage, you had to buy individual packages for individual teams. Outside of fans of that particular club, who would buy any of them. As a neutral, how many packages would you actaully be bothered with? Personally, I wouldn't buy any and would satisfy myself with the free-to-air highlights.

 

[Gritt23]

The Premiership clubs will collapse in on themselves as surely as those halfwit investment banks did. The level of debt is unsustainable and in the grand scheme of things nobody would give that much of a f*** if they suddenly weren't there. IMHO, like.

I agree. Financially it's all completely unsustainable. Generally, if you are running a business in debt, it's because there are brighter times ahead that you are aiming for. But these are the BRIGHTEST of times revenue-wise, and that is when they are in the most debt. So what is the medium-term plan to extracate themselves from this? "Mr Moneybags Billionaire rolling into town" cannot constitute a business plan.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

That's not an easy thing to do right though, and I think Serie A got themselves into a pickle with it a few years back and abandoned the idea.

Just imagine that rather than blanket Sky coverage, you had to buy individual packages for individual teams. Outside of fans of that particular club, who would buy any of them. As a neutral, how many packages would you actaully be bothered with? Personally, I wouldn't buy any and would satisfy myself with the free-to-air highlights.

Plus it would have an impact on crowds

 

[Laughing Gravy]

The bubble will burst. It cant go on like this.

 

[Gritt23]

The bubble will burst. It cant go on like this.

It needs to, as all that ios changing is the bubble is getting bigger, and bigger and bigger, meaning it will be a greater problem when it does inevitably burst.

Leeds debts when they got into strife were about equivalent (slightly less I think) than Pompey. That was a team who chased the dream as far as Champions League, and on a much bigger fan-base than Pompey. A few years later and teams who have chased a much smaller dream (just surviving mid-table in the EPL) are getting themselves into more debt to achieve less, whiole the teams chasing Leeds dream are in £400m and £700m of debt, around 10 times the levels Leeds got themselves into.

 

[Billy the Fish]

The Germans have it spot on a competitive league with plenty of home grown players and clubs in the black.

However I can't see our top division ever going back to that. If anything the arrogance of the premier league will at least see it spiral into oblivion. All the time it continues to be described as the 'best league in the world' and bollocks spouted that it would be poorer without Torres and co on 100k + a week then nothing will change

I was about to ask about the German model. Does anyone know how it works out there? Isn't there a rule about wages and debt?

Another problem with wage cap rules is this G24 group of clubs. Basically UEFA are a bit toothless because if they try and put rules in place all the big clubs threaten to piss off and form their own league.

Personally I say let them do it, let them have their closed league playing the same teams every year, it will soon become boring. I think it will end up like the NFL vs college football in america, all the big money in the NFL, but college football is more exciting and more popular.