Portsmouth Back In Court Tomorrow

[sten_super]

According to them.

£18m according to HMRC. Pompey are disputing the figure....

But, as I understand it, their dispute centres on the fact that they reckon the selling club, rather than the buying club, should play VAT on player transfers, or something like that, and that therefore every transfer that has ever taken place in the professional era has had the wrong party paying the VAT. Doesn't sound like they have the best chance of success...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

But, as I understand it, their dispute centres on the fact that they reckon the selling club, rather than the buying club, should play VAT on player transfers, or something like that, and that therefore every transfer that has ever taken place in the professional era has had the wrong party paying the VAT. Doesn't sound like they have the best chance of success...

Something like that, yes.

Which seems a fairly odd argument, considering they've been a net SELLING club to the tune of £80m over the last three seasons.....

Presumably, they are going to offer to pay the VAT on all that, once its all sorted

 

[severnside gull]

Next time I go in the corner shop I will remember to ask them for a refund on the VAT on my Mars Bar

 

[beorhthelm]

... they reckon the selling club, rather than the buying club, should play VAT on player transfers,

eh? so football should be different to all other businesses in which side pays the VAT?

Which seems a fairly odd argument, considering they've been a net SELLING club to the tune of £80m over the last three seasons.....

Presumably, they are going to offer to pay the VAT on all that, once its all sorted

now thats just confusing.

 

[Bwian]

Something like that, yes.

Which seems a fairly odd argument, considering they've been a net SELLING club to the tune of £80m over the last three seasons.....

Presumably, they are going to offer to pay the VAT on all that, once its all sorted

They're obviously getting their financial advise from Simon Jordan

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

The taxman is obviously looking to make an example of someone.

Why should a club be able to effectively write off their debts and simply carry on as if nothing happened, other than losing points?

If you or I went bankrupt there is a period of time when we are not allowed to run a company (1 year I think). OK we can start another company after the bankruptcy is discharged but we'd have to start from scratch, not simply carry on the old one.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The taxman is obviously looking to make an example of someone.

Why should a club be able to effectively write off their debts and simply carry on as if nothing happened, other than losing points?

If you or I went bankrupt there is a period of time when we are not allowed to run a company (1 year I think). OK we can start another company after the bankruptcy is discharged but we'd have to start from scratch, not simply carry on the old one.

You're missing the point though - the same people would NOT be allowed to. Someone else buying it after the administration, is a 'new' company, and free to continue.


The really vile one was the Leeds situation, where the 'new' company was owned by Bates as well. I still cannot understand how that was legal.

 

[Bwian]

The taxman is obviously looking to make an example of someone.

Why should a club be able to effectively write off their debts and simply carry on as if nothing happened, other than losing points?

If you or I went bankrupt there is a period of time when we are not allowed to run a company (1 year I think). OK we can start another company after the bankruptcy is discharged but we'd have to start from scratch, not simply carry on the old one.

Portsmouth may have f***ed it for any club going into administration in the future.

 

[clapham_gull]

The taxman is obviously looking to make an example of someone.

Why should a club be able to effectively write off their debts and simply carry on as if nothing happened, other than losing points?

If you or I went bankrupt there is a period of time when we are not allowed to run a company (1 year I think). OK we can start another company after the bankruptcy is discharged but we'd have to start from scratch, not simply carry on the old one.

Isn't it becoming more and more common, pre-pack administration I think they call it.

 

[shoreham moonraker]

As i have said on some other thread the administator Andronikou was Swindons administrator. The bloke is a liabilty, we sailed very close to the wind mainly down to this blokes stupidity. Pompey are well and truely f***ed with him in charge, many swindon fans have been on Pompey forums and warning their trust about him but all the warnings seem to be falling on deaf ears.

 

[perseus]

Havant & Waterlooville

As I said before, it is only about 50% that Portsmouth FC will survive until the end of the year. Huge big shit!

I might revise that to Summer of 2010. They are only Evens to survive to start next season.

They WON'T get advanced parachute payments, because the club might not be around to qualify for them!

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

As I said before, it is only about 50% that Portsmouth FC will survive until the end of the year. Huge big shit!

I might revise that to Summer of 2010. They are only Evens to survive to start next season.

They WON'T get advanced parachute payments, because the club might not be around to qualify for them!

the thing that pisses me off is that the parachute payments should go to the current club/administrator to pay off debts not to a newly formed company out of administration.

 

[Simster]

As i have said on some other thread the administator Andronikou was Swindons administrator. The bloke is a liabilty, we sailed very close to the wind mainly down to this blokes stupidity. Pompey are well and truely f***ed with him in charge, many swindon fans have been on Pompey forums and warning their trust about him but all the warnings seem to be falling on deaf ears.

Well what do you want them to do?

 

[shoreham moonraker]

Get there heads out of the clouds for starters! Saying that they will sell players off and then get the clubs to loan them back! Whats all that about? And im pretty sure ourselves and Brighton had active campaigns to try to save our clubs, it seems to me Pompey are of the attitude that they are too big to go bust.

 

[Simster]

Get there heads out of the clouds for starters! Saying that they will sell players off and then get the clubs to loan them back! Whats all that about? And im pretty sure ourselves and Brighton had active campaigns to try to save our clubs, it seems to me Pompey are of the attitude that they are too big to go bust.

In all honesty, I think its gone well past the point of supporter action. They've gone into administration which all professional pundits were saying was the best of a bad lot. I doubt they'd really want to be told that the administrator was clueless by a Swindon fan, as if that's helping in any way whatsoever. If that was me, I'd probably tell you to f*** off too.

What are they supposed to do about a debt of £80m and no assets? Their players are only worth about £20m in total! My grievance is that it seems odd that NO-ONE saw this coming two years ago, when they were putting Muntari and Defoe on wages of £60k a week, paying their CEO the 4th highest in the league (£1.4m a year) and winning the FA Cup and qualifying for Europe.

 

[BensGrandad]

The idea of winding upa firm and then restarting is not confined to football clubs as it is widely used in many businesses. Mike Ashley has done ita number of times with what is now called Sportsdirect.com and Techenguiz did it with Yates Wine Bars closing it down at 11.30pm on a Thursday night and buying it back and restarting the company at 9.00am the next day thereby closing the 90 least profitable Yates in the country and wiping out £200m of debts.

I agree about Portsmouth but it is the actual laws about finance and winding up of firms that need tightening up not just football clubs.

 

[Questions]

Now bear with me here because all this administration stuff does confuse me at times. If a company goes into admin it is run by the administrator who basically sells off the profitable bits to pay off creditors. So far so good. Then they may seek a new buyer to come in who wont have to honour the debts because they are a new company who will start from scratch.
Its the starting from scratch bit that gets me, because if they are nothing to do with the previous company then they should not be able to take over at the same position in league terms. IMO they should be invited by the Football league to re-apply at the entry level of say Conference South or wherever they are geographically situated.

But like I said it all baffles me really.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

On BBc they have said that hearing is just for Chenrai to prove he owns the club - but I think it could be more serious

 

[beorhthelm]

They WON'T get advanced parachute payments, because the club might not be around to qualify for them!

this is the interesting thing. if the club is wound up, it ceases to exist. the results from the season are struck from the record and this has a very significant bearing for many teams. whats the EPL to do, pay an advance or see clubs jump up or down a few places duing to them going out of business.

thats not the end of it since the other football clubs get first dibs or the FA/FL will punish them... so the EPL will have to pay direct to the football creditors? but then they are back to square one with the winding up petition from HMRC.

basicaly the EPLhave advnace parachute payment AND prize money and TV money which could get Pompey out of dodge with the HMRC. but to do so they have to break their own rules. this is the issue HMRC is trying to force, it wants to see the end of the football debts first rule.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

When they get relegated the Football League still has to agree their admission to the league. They could and should sanction this with high penalty clauses and also deduct further points. The admission policy for admittance via promotion from the Conference is very strict regarding accounts etc and these could also be used to relegated clubs as well. Not one paper or tv analyst has even raised this question.