One4the.road
New member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 334
I hope the club don't do this
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Police want banning orders even if your not nicked
- Thread starter One4the.road
- Start date
The Large One
Who's Next?
Like, say, for instance when someone anonymous throws a bottle of coke from 50 feet up?
The Fifth Column
Lazy mug
How do you ban someone who's anonymous? And banning orders are nothing to do with the club its purely a police decision.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
To be fair if you get caught the ob should probably have a word with you for that. Contrary to what I said on the other thread when I thought the bottle was empty, chucking a full bottle of coke has police caution written all over it.
As for banning people without being nicked, we did this a couple of years ago. It's pretty low because they can do it with very little evidence, if they have evidence of wrongdoing then make it a criminal matter and pursue it through the courts. If not just leave people alone. It's a dangerous road to walk when police can go after people just because they don't like them.
It's if the police cannot prosecute they will ask the club to bar individuals. I'm sure the club will look at the evidence and make their own mind up. Seems fair enough to me.
The Fifth Column
Lazy mug
Ah fair enough, I see what you mean now. Seems a bit harsh that if you've not been convicted or even arrested that the club then bans you! I guess they can claim anything under the umbrella of the conditions on your season ticket.
southwickseagull
New member
Just behave yourself, and you wont get banned! Rocket science or what?
LABHA
New member
Stupid,if there is no evidence of a person doing anything wrong,and no charge is bought,to ask the club to ban someone for nothing is pathetic.
Arthur
Well-known member
How can the police push for a banning order if you've not been charged with anything?
The club could choose to ban you but then surely that would only Albion affect home games?
The club could choose to ban you but then surely that would only Albion affect home games?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
A banning order would also affect away games. Evidence from stewards or cctv is enough to earn a banning order without having to be charged and go through a court.
Arthur
Well-known member
How? They are issued by the court!
Lord Bracknell
On fire
I think you'll find that senior management at the Albion take a different view as far as admission to the Amex is concerned.
Keyser Söze
New member
- Jul 21, 2010
- 308
The Police can make a civil banning order against anyone they want without any previous convictions. A civil banning order is identical to one made via a conviction, only it is granted by a civil complaint. Big difference is that the respondent (defendant really) is not entitled to any legal aid to challenge the complaint, therefore anyone wanting to challenge it will have to pay for it off of their own back - which isn't cheap. Also, if the respondent challenges the complaint and fails, they are liable for all costs (which run into several thousands).
The Police will apply for a civil banning order if they feel the respondent has 'contributed to/or participated in violence at football matches.' Now this statement might be pretty black and white to me and you, but believe me it is not. The 'contributed' could be something as small as being on camera speaking to someone who is identified as a risk supporter. Basically, if there is the smallest whiff that you might be a risk supporter, the Police can apply for a civil FBO against you - and they usually win because the respondents can't afford to lose. The magistrates and/or judge almost always goes in favor of the Police in these cases as well.
Personally, I think the system stinks. Breach of civil liberties being able to put such restraints on someone's freedom without actually having to prove anything.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
That's not a banning order though, for the purposes of this thread we need to be clear on the difference and the terminology.
The club can ban you from the Amex whenever they like, because they own it and run it. It's the same as me choosing who I allow into my house.
A banning order is a removal of your civil liberties by a Magistrate. You will not be allowed to be in certain areas where a football match is being played and will have to hand your passport in at the police station when England are playing, it has a serious affect on peoples lives. Non compliance with a banning order then becomes a criminal matter.
There's a massive difference.
Keyser Söze
New member
- Jul 21, 2010
- 308
Spot on. A lot of people are not clear in these issues at all. The facts need to be known.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
Back at ya. Glad we posted that at the same time, hopefully it'll keep some nonsense off the thread.
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
From a home games point of view I don't see a problem with the police making a request to the Albion that someone should be banned, either temporarily or permanently, for a football related offence, provided that they can supply sufficient evidence to the club, and that there is an appeals process (and in this case I would prefer to see an panel made up from a Supporters Club and the Club). It would be cheaper for the taxpayer and probably be more effective than going through the courts.
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
There's no favouritism towards the Police/CPS, if a defendant is found guilty at trial then it's generally because the prosecution case is put better that the defence case.
As for banning, if the club decides that they want to ban someone for something, then they can, same as a publican can ban a drinker.
Keyser Söze
New member
- Jul 21, 2010
- 308
It is nothing to do with being guilty or innocent! What the Police are talking about has nothing to do with criminal prosecution. In the circumstances you are referring to (prosecution vs defendant) is completely different from a complainant vs respondent. A civil application is completely different. The respondent in these cases is at a massive disadvantage because they get no legal aid to challenge the complaint, which for a lot of people is too much.