fatbadger
New member
Gareth Glover said:
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People filing by Reagan's coffin .. what's that all about?
- Thread starter goldstone
- Start date
Uncle Spielberg
Well-known member
Good point, well made Simster.
Uncle Spielberg
Well-known member
I do love the Amercian way. I have had positive feelings towards the USA all my life, their cinema, their music, their way of life. I do get fed up with the constant anti USA stance. I honestly don't think I can every recall a positive USA thread on NSC apart from mine of course !.
Gilliver's Travels
Peripatetic
Am I anti-American?
Always an interesting question for anyone opposed to American foreign policy: Am I simply anti-American or just anti-Bush, anti-Reagan, or anti-whichever Republican is currently in office?
Sure, like Gareth, I too like a lot of American music and cinema, plus their can-do attitude, their natural sense of hospitality and also their [relatively] open access to information.
But beyond that are other constants in American society - and its people's psyche – which are there regardless of the party in power. Take a look:-
Their love of guns; the death penalty; their ridiculous, nauseating, sugary patriotism; their enslavement to the mighty dollar and corrupt big-business; their once admired but now corporate-enslaved, timid and supine media; their truly astonishing 85% literal belief in medieval concepts like 'God' and 'the Devil'; their appalling level of ignorance of other cultures - only 14% of Americans actually own a passport; their naive, uncomprehending self-absorption; their grotesque levels of material greed and concomitant obesity; their insular inability to understand how they are regarded by the rest of the world.
Now, like many NSC posters, I am happy that I know a goodly number of liberal (a dirty word over there, folks), educated, culturally aware, open-minded, politically sophisticated Americans. They remind me that I don't actually, knee-jerkingly dislike America per se. But they are only a tiny minority. Most Americans are not like them. If Americans didn't speak a sort of English, we'd regard theirs as a rather frightening, incomprehensible, alien society
So, Gareth, despite all those films and the music - and even Michael Moore - while not automatically anti-American, I do find myself opposed to the set of values that are held and pusued by the majority of American citizens.
Always an interesting question for anyone opposed to American foreign policy: Am I simply anti-American or just anti-Bush, anti-Reagan, or anti-whichever Republican is currently in office?
Sure, like Gareth, I too like a lot of American music and cinema, plus their can-do attitude, their natural sense of hospitality and also their [relatively] open access to information.
But beyond that are other constants in American society - and its people's psyche – which are there regardless of the party in power. Take a look:-
Their love of guns; the death penalty; their ridiculous, nauseating, sugary patriotism; their enslavement to the mighty dollar and corrupt big-business; their once admired but now corporate-enslaved, timid and supine media; their truly astonishing 85% literal belief in medieval concepts like 'God' and 'the Devil'; their appalling level of ignorance of other cultures - only 14% of Americans actually own a passport; their naive, uncomprehending self-absorption; their grotesque levels of material greed and concomitant obesity; their insular inability to understand how they are regarded by the rest of the world.
Now, like many NSC posters, I am happy that I know a goodly number of liberal (a dirty word over there, folks), educated, culturally aware, open-minded, politically sophisticated Americans. They remind me that I don't actually, knee-jerkingly dislike America per se. But they are only a tiny minority. Most Americans are not like them. If Americans didn't speak a sort of English, we'd regard theirs as a rather frightening, incomprehensible, alien society
So, Gareth, despite all those films and the music - and even Michael Moore - while not automatically anti-American, I do find myself opposed to the set of values that are held and pusued by the majority of American citizens.
Hunting 784561
New member
- Jul 8, 2003
- 3,651
Buts lets face it folks, whichever way you slice it or dice it - if it hadnt been for the Americans helping us win WW2 and then keeping those pesky Soviets out of our backyard during the Cold War, none of us would have any of the basic freedoms that we take for granted now.
The Americans are basically OK, there on our side for gods sake, it's just that seem to have lost their way after 9/11.
The alternative, whatever that may be, is pretty grim after all...
The Americans are basically OK, there on our side for gods sake, it's just that seem to have lost their way after 9/11.
The alternative, whatever that may be, is pretty grim after all...
London Irish
Well-known member
I don't understand why conservative-types like Gareth regard Reagan as a figure worth respecting or praising.
Let's look at just two things he did and see if they make conservatives that happy.
In the early 1980s, Iraq was cold-shouldered by most in the west, but Reagan (or his scriptwriters) decided that they needed a strong regional counterweight to prevent the expansion of Iran and its Islamic revolution. So Reagan sent his Middle East envoy, a chap by the name of Donald Rumsfeld, to Baghdad to bring Iraq and its mustachioed leader back into the world community of nations.
Meanwhile, Ronnie had another bright idea. The Russians were having a hard time in Afghanistan, so why not fund, train and arm the local Islamic insurgents to hasten the process? And here's a better idea, when the Russians withdraw, why not leave these guys, what are they called again?, oh yes, the Taliban, to take their place and run the country, surely no harm can come of that?
When you think of all the angst that has been poured out fighting Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden over the last few years, what an amazing tribute to Ronnie to say that he played a major role in creating both of them
Let's look at just two things he did and see if they make conservatives that happy.
In the early 1980s, Iraq was cold-shouldered by most in the west, but Reagan (or his scriptwriters) decided that they needed a strong regional counterweight to prevent the expansion of Iran and its Islamic revolution. So Reagan sent his Middle East envoy, a chap by the name of Donald Rumsfeld, to Baghdad to bring Iraq and its mustachioed leader back into the world community of nations.
Meanwhile, Ronnie had another bright idea. The Russians were having a hard time in Afghanistan, so why not fund, train and arm the local Islamic insurgents to hasten the process? And here's a better idea, when the Russians withdraw, why not leave these guys, what are they called again?, oh yes, the Taliban, to take their place and run the country, surely no harm can come of that?
When you think of all the angst that has been poured out fighting Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden over the last few years, what an amazing tribute to Ronnie to say that he played a major role in creating both of them
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Fair enough - you went for your own reasons. Personally I've never felt a reason to go to the funeral of a head of state, or whatever, but if you felt more of a connection via your grandparents, then thats certainly as good a reason as any.SM BHAFC said:
But I just cannot abide the people who go along to these occasions with seemingly the express purpose of being in floods of tears to show EVERYONE how distraught they are. Its undignified attention-seeking nonsense, and I find it totally nauseating.
chips and gravy
New member
My wife is American and she usually describes herself as a political exile from the current regime. She regarded Reagan as a poor President but a nice man, while his Republican successors have been disasters.
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Easy 10 said:
So do I after Diana's funeral Chris De Burgh declaring he felt "moved" to write music.
chips and gravy
New member
I used to share a car with a girl whose musical 'taste' was Chris de Burgh and Supertramp. I used to have to listen to them on the way to work every day 
US Seagull
Well-known member
Simster said:
Back by popular demand:
And another one:
On the original subject, all these people spending hours waiting to walk past a coffin of somebody they don't really know strikes me as a little odd. But whatever floats your boat. It's all part of the hero worship that I've never really got. With the exception of friends and family I can't think of anybody's funneral I'd feel compelled to attend.
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
BBC2 - Reagan coffin on route to Capitol Hill live for those interested
Lord Bracknell
On fire
People filing by Reagan's coffin .. what's that all about?
Hmmm ... it turns out that Reagan himself planned his own funeral - right down to the finest detail - just one year after he first became President.
What's it all about?
Self-glorification, apparently.
Hmmm ... it turns out that Reagan himself planned his own funeral - right down to the finest detail - just one year after he first became President.
What's it all about?
Self-glorification, apparently.
Strike
Sussex Border Front
Gareth Glover said:I do love the Amercian way. I have had positive feelings towards the USA all my life, their cinema, their music, their way of life. I do get fed up with the constant anti USA stance. I honestly don't think I can every recall a positive USA thread on NSC apart from mine of course !.
I feel the same as you Gareth.
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Strike said:
Well I don't - a country of total contadictions that tries to set an agenda for the rest of the world that no one wants.
Alway arrogant and endemic self belief that their policies are totally in tune with what everyone else wants.
Ever declared a mistake in foreign policy - never.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Reagan on the Taliban, "the freedom fighters of Afghanistan ... defending principles of independence and freedom that form the basis of global security and stability"
Proclamation 4908 -- Afghanistan Day
March 10, 1982 By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation
In December 1979, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan without provocation and with overwhelming force. Since that time, the Soviet Union has sought through every available means, to assert its control over Afghanistan.
The Afghan people have defied the Soviet Union and have resisted with a vigor that has few parallels in modern history. The Afghan people have paid a terrible price in their fight for freedom. Their villages and homes have been destroyed; they have been murdered by bullets, bombs and chemical weapons. One-fifth of the Afghan people have been driven into exile. Yet their fight goes on. The international community, with the United States joining governments around the world, has condemned the invasion of Afghanistan as a violation of every standard of decency and international law and has called for a withdrawal of the Soviet troops from Afghanistan. Every country and every people has a stake in the Afghan resistance, for the freedom fighters of Afghanistan are defending principles of independence and freedom that form the basis of global security and stability.
It is therefore altogether fitting that the European Parliament, the Congress of the United States and parliaments elsewhere in the world have designated March 21, 1982, as Afghanistan Day, to commemorate the valor of the Afghan people and to condemn the continuing Soviet invasion of their country. Afghanistan Day will serve to recall not only these events, but also the principles involved when a people struggles for the freedom to determine its own future, the right to be free of foreign interference and the right to practice religion according to the dictates of conscience.
Now, Therefore, I, Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America, do hereby designate March 21, 1982, as Afghanistan Day.
In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this tenth day of March, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty-two, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and sixth.
Ronald Reagan
Proclamation 4908 -- Afghanistan Day
March 10, 1982 By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation
In December 1979, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan without provocation and with overwhelming force. Since that time, the Soviet Union has sought through every available means, to assert its control over Afghanistan.
The Afghan people have defied the Soviet Union and have resisted with a vigor that has few parallels in modern history. The Afghan people have paid a terrible price in their fight for freedom. Their villages and homes have been destroyed; they have been murdered by bullets, bombs and chemical weapons. One-fifth of the Afghan people have been driven into exile. Yet their fight goes on. The international community, with the United States joining governments around the world, has condemned the invasion of Afghanistan as a violation of every standard of decency and international law and has called for a withdrawal of the Soviet troops from Afghanistan. Every country and every people has a stake in the Afghan resistance, for the freedom fighters of Afghanistan are defending principles of independence and freedom that form the basis of global security and stability.
It is therefore altogether fitting that the European Parliament, the Congress of the United States and parliaments elsewhere in the world have designated March 21, 1982, as Afghanistan Day, to commemorate the valor of the Afghan people and to condemn the continuing Soviet invasion of their country. Afghanistan Day will serve to recall not only these events, but also the principles involved when a people struggles for the freedom to determine its own future, the right to be free of foreign interference and the right to practice religion according to the dictates of conscience.
Now, Therefore, I, Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America, do hereby designate March 21, 1982, as Afghanistan Day.
In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this tenth day of March, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty-two, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and sixth.
Ronald Reagan
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Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
And the US invasion of Grenada
Lord Bracknell
On fire
And no, Gareth. I am NOT anti-American. Just anti-Republican. The record of that party in government is appalling.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Surely not.Lord Bracknell said:
He's only got a flypast by 21 F-15's at his funeral. Thats hardly excessive.
Is it ?
alan partridge
Active member
Gareth Glover said:
you talk such a load of rubbish gareth its hilarious
