Our troops homecoming

[xenophon]

To write me off as a teenage internet loudmouth

You do a disservice to teenage internet loudmouths, you're just clown shoes

 

[brunswick]

You do a disservice to teenage internet loudmouths, you're just clown shoes

lol @ your level of intelligence in a worthy debate.

Please remind yourself that you are the one calling names and insults over the net huh?

 

[xenophon]

You don't debate, you 'tell'

Like I said, pure clown shoes

 

[brunswick]

....And those who are supporting "brave" hired killers (armed forces) are also telling (explaining is a better word) what is in their minds.

Why not reply to my "explanations" in an intelligent way and argue against them? This is what a debate is, if you are not doing this then you are wasting everyones time by being in this thread.

 

[Mr Everyone]

You don't debate, you 'tell'

Like I said, pure clown shoes

I thought that was one of the entry requirements in joining NSC's inner-ring?

 

[Samej]

I thought that was one of the entry requirements in joining NSC's inner-ring?

Your liking for entry of inner rings is interesting

 

[dingodan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRI_...or_conventional_arms_sales_to_Iraq_by_country

United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On May 25, 1994, the U.S. Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[30]

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[31]

Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that authored the aforementioned Riegle Report, said:

U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control sent Iraq 14 separate agents "with biological warfare significance," according to Riegle's investigators.

Did the U.S. Help Saddam Acquire Biological Weapons - Congressional Record: September 20, 2002 (Senate) Page S8987-S8998

According to confidential Commerce Department export-control documents obtained by NEWSWEEK, the shopping list included a computerized database for Saddam's Interior Ministry (presumably to help keep track of political opponents); helicopters to transport Iraqi officials; television cameras for "video surveillance applications"; chemical-analysis equipment for the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC), and, most unsettling, numerous shipments of "bacteria/fungi/protozoa" to the IAEC.

 

[xenophon]

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

....And those who are supporting "brave" hired killers (armed forces) are also telling (explaining is a better word) what is in their minds.

Why is it not possible to just despise the policy makers? Every country has an army, some conscripted, some not, and they are all made up of somebody's son or daughter, somebody's brother or sister etc. Say what you like in quotes about bravery but I'd suggest it takes a special something to walk out on patrol not knowing if every single footstep will change your life forever. The military does what it's told by the politicians, hardly the military's fault that just about every war since the end of WWII has been a shitty foreign adventure that is essentially meaningless to the man in the street.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Why will they march thro Chichester? is Chi a safer place now? Is he proud of what he did (use violent force in another country that has done no harm to the UK). Or is he again, just following orders to march?

Why march? To show how controlled they can be? How "uniform" they all are? To show how they have renounced all "independent thought."

You go and clap and cheer at people using violence against others and enjoy your day.

How anyone can support what this country is doing in afghanistan is beyond me, and this support is based in IGNORANCE and NATIONALISM.

WTF are you on then ??
Its people like my son, his brother, myself and my father and his father who have defended this country through there own free will to join the forces and give tossers like you the right to freedom of speech.

NOW f*** OFF !

(and that is my using my right of freedom of speech of which I proudly defended whilst serving in Polaris Submarines which had the capability of killing millions of people with a few Missiles )

OK Brunswick

 

[DT Withdean]

....And those who are supporting "brave" hired killers (armed forces) are also telling (explaining is a better word) what is in their minds.

Why not reply to my "explanations" in an intelligent way and argue against them? This is what a debate is, if you are not doing this then you are wasting everyones time by being in this thread.

So, let's see. In your life you might have thought of the following KILLERS as freedom fighters: IRA, INLA, Al Qaeda, PLO, Hamas, etc, etc.

And anyone serving in the forces for the 'evil' West, Israel ... as evil.

How very black and white.
Ignoring views of majorities or minorities in some of these regions.
You wait to see who the USA, UK, NATO, Israel side with, then take the opposite view, without looking into the individual facts, hearing the true age-old histories, and listening to both sides of the story.

Sounds like you should be a 70's sociology lecturer, man!

 

[dingodan]

 

[dingodan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRI_...or_conventional_arms_sales_to_Iraq_by_country

The table shows the majority of conventional arms imported by Iraq during the 1970s, when the regime was building up the armies which were to attack Iran in 1980, were supplied by the Soviet Union and its satellites, principally Czechoslovakia. The only substantial Western arms supplier to Iraq was France, which continued to be a major supplier until 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait and all legal arms transfers to Iraq ended.

The United States did not supply any arms to Iraq until 1982, when Iran's growing military success alarmed American policymakers. It then did so every year until 1988. These sales amounted to less than 1% of the total arms sold to Iraq in the relevant period.

Also from your source:

SIPRI's data are founded entirely on open sources:

The type of open information used by SIPRI cannot provide a comprehensive picture of world arms transfers. Published reports often provide only partial information, and substantial disagreement among reports is common. Order and delivery dates, exact numbers, types of weapon and the identity of suppliers or recipients may not always be clear.[1]

With this in mind you might be interested to read my earlier post (13:05 today).

 

[brunswick]

@ Tom Hark....

"The military does what it's told by the politicians" yes, but they know that they are signing up to be "fodder for the elite" .....this is their fault as they know this at the time. We all have free-will.

[MENTION=152]Charlies Shinpad[/MENTION].....

Those that defended the country in the 40's is a very different egg to those invading afghanistan now. Freedom of speech? in England? Does not really exist mate, and soon the internet will be more controlled.

I don't put a life of a relative over another life in terms of "value."

@DTW (Major)

sigh, i DO admire the courage of people fighting for freedom, but those who fight for freedom without using violence......this is irrelevant to the whole thread because in Afghan and Iraq the UK troops are not fighting for freedom but oil and control.

Your "You wait to see ...." comment is based upon nothing, and also untrue, and you have tried to pigeon hole me into an opposite societal label to help your belief system stand firm.


[MENTION=14120]xenophon[/MENTION]

I am flattered you spent time on your saturday to search google for an image

 

[brunswick]

The Freedom in Iraq was on your TV because it was a created media stunt....

 

[DT Withdean]

@ Tom Hark....

"The military does what it's told by the politicians" yes, but they know that they are signing up to be "fodder for the elite" .....this is their fault as they know this at the time. We all have free-will.

[MENTION=152]Charlies Shinpad[/MENTION].....

Those that defended the country in the 40's is a very different egg to those invading afghanistan now. Freedom of speech? in England? Does not really exist mate, and soon the internet will be more controlled.

I don't put a life of a relative over another life in terms of "value."

@DTW (Major)

sigh, i DO admire the courage of people fighting for freedom, but those who fight for freedom without using violence......this is irrelevant to the whole thread because in Afghan and Iraq the UK troops are not fighting for freedom but oil and control.

Your "You wait to see ...." comment is based upon nothing, and also untrue, and you have tried to pigeon hole me into an opposite societal label to help your belief system stand firm.


[MENTION=14120]xenophon[/MENTION]

I am flattered you spent time on your saturday to search google for an image

As requested beforehand, still looking for that illusive Agfan oil field!

 

[dingodan]

As requested beforehand, still looking for that illusive Agfan oil field!

Testimony from John Maresca, vice president of international relations for UNOCAL, to the SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC - OF THE - COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION, FEBRUARY 12, 1998.

"Second, the need for U.S. support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements to the conflicts in the region, including Afghanistan."

"The only other possible route is across Afghanistan, which has of course its own unique challenges. The country has been involved in bitter warfare for almost two decades, and is still divided by civil war. From the outset, we have made it clear that construction of the pipeline we have proposed across Afghanistan could not begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders, and our company."

"As with the proposed Central Asia oil pipeline, CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized Afghanistan Government is in place."

U.S. House of Representatives - Committee Hearings

Full Transcript: http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.htm

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Brunswick, Ive got to ask what you actually do for a living ??

I suspect you stay indoors all week or live on some commune somewhere because your idea of the real world is some what disturbing, and if you wouldnt mind moving to China that would be a result because the goverment there would love your views on them Im sure

 

[dingodan]

Brunswick, Ive got to ask what you actually do for a living ??

No, you dont have to.

Your response suggests that you cannot answer using reason and logic. So you resort to an attack on personality.

Why not say something of substance? If you really want to show someone up, demonstrate rationally that they are wrong.

If you can't do that, maybe you should ask yourself why that is?

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Just hope he doesnt work for the MOD !!