O/T A Few Good Men event - campaign for more male nursery workers and teachers

[Goldstone Rapper]

Over the past two months, I have been putting together preparations for a local event to encourage more men to seek work in nurseries and primary schools. It's taking place at the end of the month, on Tuesday 25 August, at Tarner Children's Centre, on Ivory Place, Brighton.

I would like to see whether anyone on NSCers would like to come to this event or whether you know anyone who might. This may include male graduates, playworkers, social care workers, dads, or indeed any other men looking for a new career.

Representatives from the Pre-School Alliance and Training Development Agency will be there along with employers and so will existing male nursery workers and primary school teachers

You may recognise the names of many NSC'ers who have contributed to the website that I have put together at www.afewgoodmen.in - please have a look!

I am also looking to give away this project over the next seven days. The idea behind this is that if I drop dead, this event would still happen. So, if you have any skills or roles in PR, marketing, media, event organisation, sponsorship etc, that you can bring to bear to make this event a success, please let me know.

 

[ChapManiA]

I just had a read of your site.
About 18 months ago, I applied to 4 different local primary schools in mid-sussex, offering myself as a volunteer. None of them got back to me.
I called County Hall (West Sussex) to talk about the issue, and the woman basically admitted that they were most likely being sexist and only wanted female helpers. Charming!

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I just had a read of your site.
About 18 months ago, I applied to 4 different local primary schools in mid-sussex, offering myself as a volunteer. None of them got back to me.
I called County Hall (West Sussex) to talk about the issue, and the woman basically admitted that they were most likely being sexist and only wanted female helpers. Charming!

That's awful to offer your skills as a volunteer and not get a response either way. What a shabby way to treat someone. If you found a school that was interested now, would you still be interested in being a volunteer? Just by being a guy, with your own skills and way of being, I'm sure you could have made a big contribution to children's lives at any of those four schools where you applied.

A friend of mine sent me a presentation a few weeks ago looking at why there are so many women in childcare and primary school teaching. It said that the main reason was that working with children was seen as 'women's work'. However, what I thought was interesting was that the supplementary reason it gave was that "a gendered workforce tends to replicate itself" i.e. women tend to recruit women, without really thinking about it.

Certainly, from my experience, women at some workplaces, particularly nurseries, seem very attached to it being an all-female environment! Fact is, though, they say something different publicly, and it's time to hold them to their word!

 

[tedebear]

A friend of mine sent me a presentation a few weeks ago looking at why there are so many women in childcare and primary school teaching. It said that the main reason was that working with children was seen as 'women's work'. However, what I thought was interesting was that the supplementary reason it gave was that "a gendered workforce tends to replicate itself" i.e. women tend to recruit women, without really thinking about it.

Anyone surveyed the kids? I think you'll find that under 5's would prefer women. Women are better at skinned knees, hugs, cuddles and personally I think you'd have serious questions to answer if you found men teachers having to change pants and nappies at nursery...

School however I agree - more men would be great - especially music teachers and sports teachers, far better as men!!...go for it I say...

 

[auschr]

have you tried contacting Harriet Harman?

 

[ChapManiA]

I understand that in Nurseries, male workers aren't allowed to change nappies and the like.

Considering that a woman in South London was busted for abusing children at a day care centre, can you really even trust women over men when it comes to young children these days?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I'm actually leaving Primary teaching because of the way that men are treated in the workplace. Generally, no toilet, "share the disabled one", management styles of newer female headteachers who equate "bullying" with "leadership" - inequality of treatment (female teachers who cry and get sent home), expectations of male teachers to take on archetypal male roles but hands-in-air hysterics if it works the other way, segregation in the staffroom, general bitchiness.

Moving to Further Education/College teaching instead where I hope it will be better!

 

[Tooting Gull]

personally I think you'd have serious questions to answer if you found men teachers having to change pants and nappies at nursery...
...

I do understand your prejudice on this (and let's be clear, that's what it is). We probably all share it to a degree. But logically, if you yourself have a partner/husband and kids, how can you say that? You'd trust them in that situation, so why not someone doing it professionally?

When I and my wife met our first community 'mid-wife' it was a bloke. We looked at each other a bit amused, but at the end of the day it was our problem, not his, as we needed his expertise more than he needed us. He was good at his job, and that's what counts.

 

[shaolinpunk]

If I'm not working I'll try and make it - it's one of the many paths I'm thinking of taking

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Anyone surveyed the kids? I think you'll find that under 5's would prefer women. Women are better at skinned knees, hugs, cuddles and personally I think you'd have serious questions to answer if you found men teachers having to change pants and nappies at nursery...

School however I agree - more men would be great - especially music teachers and sports teachers, far better as men!!...go for it I say...

I think the answer is that, it depends. Anecdotally, I have found it to be the case that men can be just as popular as women in nurseries, particularly as they are often considered more fun and less strict. They don't nag in the way some women do. From my own experience, the default style of many female workers is more distant and supervisory whereas men often directly play with children, and enter a space somewhere between reality and fantasy, which many children, particularly the ones in the year before they start school, really like.

And while comforting a child often comes more naturally for women, it is something that can be learnt.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I understand that in Nurseries, male workers aren't allowed to change nappies and the like.

Considering that a woman in South London was busted for abusing children at a day care centre, can you really even trust women over men when it comes to young children these days?

Yes, some nurseries won't allow men to change nappies although that's not the case with most, I don't think. I personally wouldn't complain if I wasn't allowed to change nappies!!!

 

[looney]

 

[tedebear]

I do understand your prejudice on this (and let's be clear, that's what it is). We probably all share it to a degree. But logically, if you yourself have a partner/husband and kids, how can you say that? You'd trust them in that situation, so why not someone doing it professionally?

When I and my wife met our first community 'mid-wife' it was a bloke. We looked at each other a bit amused, but at the end of the day it was our problem, not his, as we needed his expertise more than he needed us. He was good at his job, and that's what counts.

No absolutely no prejudice at all. I think bad choice of words there?

Prejudice:an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

My "opinion" is formed by my continual thoughts about my sons happieness and wellbeing.

I trust my husband implicitly, but I know that as a female I am more tolerant, more understanding, better at listening, easier to understand frustration. And whilst this doesn't apply to all women, it applies to far greater numbers of to women than men.

Whilst my son was of the age where he needed these things I have preferred it to be provided by a woman. There may be men out there who can provide this - but on the whole they are rare.

This changes around 5-6 but until then, women generally are better.

 

[tedebear]

When I and my wife met our first community 'mid-wife' it was a bloke. We looked at each other a bit amused, but at the end of the day it was our problem, not his, as we needed his expertise more than he needed us. He was good at his job, and that's what counts.

Secondly a mid-wife delievers a child and visits you through its first few days...I'm not sure that equates to being able to deal with a walking, talking emotionally needy 2-4 year old...

On the other points - you can find bad eggs in any walk of life... to trot out the extremes is contrary to good debate...

 

[Tooting Gull]

as a female I am more tolerant, more understanding, better at listening, easier to understand frustration. .

Let me tell you, there will be a lot of men reading that having a not-so-silent chuckle to themselves...

 

[tedebear]

Let me tell you, there will be a lot of men reading that having a not-so-silent chuckle to themselves...

There will be a few, but there will be more mothers nodding in agreement....

 

[Gordon the Gopher]

I work as a teacher in a primary school and do agree that more male role models can help. I work with children from an area of Brighton right up there on the deprivation index and at least half of the kids in my class don't have a dad at home and often their role models are not good. Drogba last year springs instantly to mind.
Men can be tolerant, understanding, deal with frustration and all those things so sorry Tedebear but disagree with you there. Infact, you can't deal effectively with issues in the classroom unless you have these qualitiies!

Good luck with your event!!

 

[tedebear]

I work as a teacher in a primary school and do agree that more male role models can help. I work with children from an area of Brighton right up there on the deprivation index and at least half of the kids in my class don't have a dad at home and often their role models are not good. Drogba last year springs instantly to mind.
Men can be tolerant, understanding, deal with frustration and all those things so sorry Tedebear but disagree with you there. Infact, you can't deal effectively with issues in the classroom unless you have these qualitiies!

Good luck with your event!!

I don't think you read my earlier post, by primary school I'm all for it, more men, great. They can be the exceptional role models some children require! But for nursery/playgroup/kindergarten, there may be some exceptional men, but on the whole, women are better.

I must also add I have two teachers in my family, my Dad (a retired Deputy High School Head Master, and my sister, a Kindergarten Manager)...

 

[auschr]

It's a sad state of affairs when poxy gender wars based on spurious and misguided stereotypes have to take place in something so significant as a child's development.

 

[Gordon the Gopher]

I don't think you read my earlier post, by primary school I'm all for it, more men, great. They can be the exceptional role models some children require! But for nursery/playgroup/kindergarten, there may be some exceptional men, but on the whole, women are better.

I must also add I have two teachers in my family, my Dad (a retired Deputy High School Head Master, and my sister, a Kindergarten Manager)...

Fair point. My kids went to nursery at Young Sussex at Buck Park and it is hard to argue against what your saying. All the girls there were great with my kids and interesting that a few of the girls had been there for many years. I've come across men working as teachers in the foundation stage but hardly any below that. Difficult to know if what you are saying is some of the reason behind this. Also the fact nursey workers are on about half of what teachers are on will always have a negative impact on recruitment generally!