Now this really is a good idea

[chip]

But you're talking about 2 different things. 4x4 cars, and I don't want to get into this debate as I'd love to have one myself, cause this extended damage, thats a fact. But not everyone who has a drink is going to end up causing criminal damage or going to A&E.

So why should someone going for a few quiet beers to watch the football be forced to contribute because of binge drinkers? Unless the tax is only going to applicable if bar staff suspect its binge drinking/trouble-makers...

Yes and no. It is not a fact that 4x4 cause or extend climatic change, just a poorly described hypothesis - and that is another debate. I accept your point that the symptoms may be different but my argument is around using taxation to counter the impact of the product that is being taxed. Perhaps smoking would have been a better example as here the product and its consumption have been taxed and regulated beyond its (financial) impact on society. I guess more people drink, and to excess, than drive 4x4s. If you believe the argument that taxing 4x4s will result in a lower usage then why not apply it to other areas like drinking. I don't actually believe that is generally true and agree with others that it is social attitudes that have to change.

The fact is that excessive drinking is a very real problem with extremely serious consequences that are having an effect on an increasing number of peoples lives. It is only fair that the costs of this should be borne by those who drink. If you drink less, you pay less, but the tax would at least be proportionate to the level of consumption.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

MoH - I'd be interested in an example of a nation which drinks more but has less anti-social behaviour.

 

[Gwylan]

MoH - I'd be interested in an example of a nation which drinks more but has less anti-social behaviour.

In a previous job I worked on the Drinkwise campaign aimed at making people cut down their drinking.

At the time (1993), there was a league table of alcohol consumption per capita in Europe and the UK wasn't even in the top 20.

I think it's risen since then but they're way behind the Czechs for example. And you don't see much public drunkeness in Prague.

Well you do, but it's usually the Brits

 

[Man of Harveys]

http://www.britannica.com/eb/table?tocId=9390287

Take your pick, this is the most recent list I could find (I can't be arsed to Google any more) - I don't have crime stats at hand either but I really don't think the streets of Spain are as regularly full of Spanish people behaving like people in West Street at 2am, and I think I know that Germany's streets aren't either.

I think people should be able to drink whenever they want - it's a personal responsibilty to be faced like any other if it's done to excess.

 

[Sonic The Hedgehog]

I drink more than is recommended - those of you who know me would probably agree. However, I have NEVER* been involved in anything that has caused the taxpayer to shell out more money for police, ambulances etc.




* - I don't count the standing up at Hull City incident.




See you all at opening time in Huddersfield tomorrow.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

MoH - I'd be interested in an example of a nation which drinks more but has less anti-social behaviour.

I have no evidence to back this up, but I believe Ireland and Scandinavian countries could possibly fall into that category.

 

[TelscombeGull]

TC: I think you will find that Denmark, Sweden and Finland have far higher taxes on alcohol than we do.

Fair Point. But have you seen the levels of binge drinking that occur in Sweden and Finland?

I am not sure of the statistics, but the last time I was in Denmark, c 10 years ago, at the ferry port between Copenhagen and Umea in Sweden, the walls were plastered with signs advising how to Help a drunk swede

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Thanks Moh, I think it backs up the problem with the place drinking has in our culture. We drink to get drunk, we do so in groups and our drinking doesn't accompany activites which might modify our behaviour. The end result is West Street on a Saturday night.

 

[Gwylan]

We're also one of the few countries that buys drinks in rounds. I like the social aspect of that but it does to tend to make people drink more.

I do like the German way of totting it up at the end of the evening with each person buying his or her own.

 

[British Bulldog]

I think people should be able to drink whenever they want - it's a personal responsibilty to be faced like any other if it's done to excess.

Nail on head! Everybody should take responsibility for they're own drinking and if they step out of line then they face the consequences for it.

 

[Cian]

If they just up the tax on alcopops and cider like they do every few years here, fine. Pint hasn't been touched in ages.

 

[Rangdo]

Hewitt asks for alcohol tax rise

Tax on alcohol should rise to reduce binge drinking among teenagers, Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt has said.

Ms Hewitt urged chancellor Gordon Brown to "really increase" taxes on alcohol, especially on drinks such as alcopops, most popular with young people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6089784.stm

Its time that drinkers paid the full price for their destructive, unhealthy and anti-social behavior. I'd like to see the tax raised by at least £1 per unit of alcohol.

Hmmmm, very flawed arguments. It won't make any difference. It's just another way for labour to hit us with more stealth taxes. I drink but not in large quantities and I don't mouth off and start fights when I've had a few so why should I be taxed more?
Spain has very low taxes on alcohol and doesn't have the same problems so how do you explain that one?

 

[Bakesy]

Is this new tax going to be called the "Lets f*** Bakesy over bigtime tax?"

 

[withdeanwombat]

Yes,I liked this news story,too.

Allow pubs to open all hours,allow alcohol to be sold in supermarkets all day and night,and in corner shops,too.

Get people used to the idea that this is to bring us in line with more relaxed laws elsewhere,and then,when everybody is eased into the new system,and drunk as skunks...............PUT UP TAXES!

I even heard somebody say that raising tax was the ONLY way to stop excessive drinking.

Are these people mad,or brain dead?

Restrict off sales to licensed offies,and put restrictions back on opening hours,and job done.


Pu het Lanbio!

 

[Goring Gull]

MoH - I'd be interested in an example of a nation which drinks more but has less anti-social behaviour.

They get right pissed up in Germany but in my three months out there i can say i didn't witness any antisocial behaviour.

 

[Gully]

I have spent somewhere over 8 years living overseas in Belgium, the Netherlands and Canada, the only alcohol related trouble (Apart from an Anderlecht v Antwerp football match) involved Brits. If I am honest, the worst occasion was in the Netherlands and it was sort of started by a group of Moroccans who just wanted some white people to fight with, it was unfortunate that a Scottish bird rose to the challenge and dragged the rest of the group in with her, that was a nasty fight and two people ended up hospitalised. The annoying thing was when one of the Brits approached a copper because they were getting a pasting, the Maroccans thought it acceptable to fight with bottles and chains, the Policeman refused even to call an ambulance and made them take a taxi to hospital.

 

[Goring Gull]

Also how many times have you been really drunk and it must be noticable to bar staff yet they still serve you gladly - that needs stopping.

 

[desprateseagull]

that wont stop kids drinking, just encourage more theft, imo.. perhaps stiffer penalties for the shopsthat sell to under age people may get them to pay more attention..

or, sadly, follow the USA rule of checking EVERYONE's ID, even if you are clearly old enough..

anyway, why should responsible drinkers have to pay more as well? another 'well meaning' but sneaky tax rise..

 

[Goring Gull]

that wont stop kids drinking, just encourage more theft, imo.. perhaps stiffer penalties for the shopsthat sell to under age people may get them to pay more attention..

or, sadly, follow the USA rule of checking EBERYONE's ID, even if you are clearly old enough..

and i'm sure in the USA there are still plenty of underagers drinking.

It will be a gradual culture change - it'll just take time.

 

[dougdeep]

Crazy idea. Booze should be cheaper not dearer, this would be. just an excuse to increase our taxes.