[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Weststander]

Their policies are massively popular though. All they need to do is bide their time, reminding the foolish electorate how they have been blinded by the biased media, and the successor of Corbyn will be swept to power, and the grateful ordinary working man and woman will rejoice.

The Politburo’s 5 year electoral plan will fail in 2024, IF it’s more of the same, the only change a different hard left puppet as General Secretary.

Labour’s Lisa Nandy who seems good on many levels (she doesn’t talk her country down, is positive, she listens to all, not just whooping Momentum zealots), was today in Labour’s lost seat of Ashfield in Nottingham. To meet voters and to listen to their remarks about this disastrous Labour campaign.

Time and time again, voters who’d dumped Labour, mentioned the turn offs of a return to failed 1970’s left wing policies, Corbyn, and the painting of an entirely miserable picture of our country. The voters don’t feel that way.

 

[Beach Hut]

The Politburo’s 5 year electoral plan will fail in 2024, IF it’s more of the same, the only change a different hard left puppet as General Secretary.

Labour’s Lisa Nandy who seems good on many levels (she doesn’t talk her country down, is positive, she listens to all, not just whooping Momentum zealots), was today in Labour’s lost seat of Ashfield in Nottingham. To meet voters and to listen to their remarks about this disastrous Labour campaign.

Time and time again, voters who’d dumped Labour, mentioned the turn offs of a return to failed 1970’s left wing policies, Corbyn, and the painting of an entirely miserable picture of our country. The voters don’t feel that way.

What labour were offering was stunning stupid beyond belief, re-nationalisation that one set of voters had moved on from and what the younger generation probably had to google which showed something totally alien to their work requirements.

 

[ac gull]

I will have a massive guess that an alleged binding "peoples vote" in 2016 was somehow re-assigned to become "advisory only"

Treat the electorate like they are stupid and they will invariably prove that they are not

The electorate in the midlands and north "knew what it needed to do" and delivered it on an over whelming scale

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

If I thought you weren't a dick I'd be offended.

I'm not offended.

Just like Rachel 'we'll be tougher than the Tories on benefits' Reeves - these are the Blairite policies that you are clearly not offended by

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Politburo’s 5 year electoral plan will fail in 2024, IF it’s more of the same, the only change a different hard left puppet as General Secretary.

Labour’s Lisa Nandy who seems good on many levels (she doesn’t talk her country down, is positive, she listens to all, not just whooping Momentum zealots), was today in Labour’s lost seat of Ashfield in Nottingham. To meet voters and to listen to their remarks about this disastrous Labour campaign.

Time and time again, voters who’d dumped Labour, mentioned the turn offs of a return to failed 1970’s left wing policies, Corbyn, and the painting of an entirely miserable picture of our country. The voters don’t feel that way.

Exactly. I had to spend 4 years living abroad to learn that you can be on the left and aspirational. I wanted to own my own home, not get on the council house list. It took me those 4 years to get my 'working class chip' off my shoulder.

But....if Labour is only for the 'ordinary working class' (pronounced claas, not clarse) they will never ever form a government again. The 'ordinary working class' as a self-defined group probably amounts to 10 million people, and a good proportion of them don't vote. 99% of Americans define themselves as middle class. The numbers are not as high here but they are far higher than momentum labour seems to think. We have not just shy tories, but shy 'middle class'.

And the solution is not to try to bully people like me into admitting I am just ordinary, and should not get all high and mighty and hoity toity just because I have pulled myself out of the gutter via education. Yes, slap me down, till I am humble, and then I'll gladly embrace the red rose of socialism. That'll work.

And if I reject that then I am just a pale pink tory Blairite.....'dismissed' as worthless - not even worth bothering attempting to convince to vote labour. The arrogance of failure.

It has been a long time since I have seen such stupidity. 1984 I think it was.

No, the real traitors, the betrayers of hope, are the Corbyn followers (not so much Corbyn himself, he's too hopeless to be the mastermind of anything). You have to embrace the nation to win, and the nation can smell a zealot. Unfortunately for Corbyn, the nation dislikes the smell of a zealot more than the smell of a chancer/bullshitter, which is how Boris won. Blair in his pomp would have wiped the floor with Boris.

Anyway, as a lifelong labour voter, I should be easy to persuade to vote labour again. I will probably vote labour again despite the cockwomblery of the likes of JRG. But those a little right of centre who voted for Blair....these are necessary voters. They aren't coming back any time soon....

If Corbyn labour is happy to lose again in 2014, confident that the nation will wise up and vote labour in again eventually....they need to take a hard look at themselves because this is a betrayal of the nation - allowing Boris to spaff all over us while they distill their party into their view of left purity. Disgraceful derilection of duty.

 

[Weststander]

What labour were offering was stunning stupid beyond belief, re-nationalisation that one set of voters had moved on from and what the younger generation probably had to google which showed something totally alien to their work requirements.

There were also tax hikes buried in their manifesto, which I highlighted on NSC, that were going to adversely affect millions NOT on income of £80k upwards. Anyone running a small limited company, any pensioner holding a few shares in any listed company (they might’ve been their former employer), were all going to pay dearly. The leadership were utter liars in their interviews and propaganda that they were only going to squeeze the rich.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

What labour were offering was stunning stupid beyond belief, re-nationalisation that one set of voters had moved on from and what the younger generation probably had to google which showed something totally alien to their work requirements.

Yet - in the past week

64% support for nationalising the railways
63% support for nationalising the water companies
69% support for nationalising Royal Mail
55% support for nationalising bus companies
57% opposed to privatising the BBC

 

[Weststander]

Exactly. I had to spend 4 years living abroad to learn that you can be on the left and aspirational. I wanted to own my own home, not get on the council house list. It took me those 4 years to get my 'working class chip' off my shoulder.

But....if Labour is only for the 'ordinary working class' (pronounced claas, not clarse) they will never ever form a government again. The 'ordinary working class' as a self-defined group probably amounts to 10 million people, and a good proportion of them don't vote. 99% of Americans define themselves as middle class. The numbers are not as high here but they are far higher than momentum labour seems to think. We have not just shy tories, but shy 'middle class'.

And the solution is not to try to bully people like me into admitting I am just ordinary, and should not get all high and mighty and hoity toity just because I have pulled myself out of the gutter via education. Yes, slap me down, till I am humble, and then I'll gladly embrace the red rose of socialism. That'll work.

And if I reject that then I am just a pale pink tory Blairite.....'dismissed' as worthless - not even worth bothering attempting to convince to vote labour. The arrogance of failure.

It has been a long time since I have seen such stupidity. 1984 I think it was.

No, the real traitors, the betrayers of hope, are the Corbyn followers (not so much Corbyn himself, he's too hopeless to be the mastermind of anything). You have to embrace the nation to win, and the nation can smell a zealot. Unfortunately for Corbyn, the nation dislikes the smell of a zealot more than the smell of a chancer/bullshitter, which is how Boris won. Blair in his pomp would have wiped the floor with Boris.

Anyway, as a lifelong labour voter, I should be easy to persuade to vote labour again. I will probably vote labour again despite the cockwomblery of the likes of JRG. But those a little right of centre who voted for Blair....these are necessary voters. They aren't coming back any time soon....

If Corbyn labour is happy to lose again in 2014, confident that the nation will wise up and vote labour in again eventually....they need to take a hard look at themselves because this is a betrayal of the nation - allowing Boris to spaff all over us while they distill their party into their view of left purity. Disgraceful derilection of duty.

I went to a rough and tumble state comp (grammars had long been abolished by Tory and Labour councils by the time I was 11), of ‘working class’ roots whatever that means. Of my own volition and resilience I worked through exams as an adult. When I look back, it was a desire to improve myself, not necessarily for the money. I know many other NSC’ers the same. I never felt bitter that Rupert’s went to independent schools, or ‘middle class’ kids got coaching for O and A Levels. People in this country are in the main optimists, albeit with concerns for problems. The angry doom and gloom of Thornberry, Long-Bailey, Abbott, the deliberate strategy to divide us into the haves and have-nots, will never wash with the overwhelming majority of voters.

My hope just now, we can’t change the result, is that the government do look after the needs of those genuinely in need, whilst helping more or us make the best of ourselves.

 

[Weststander]

Yet - in the past week

64% support for nationalising the railways
63% support for nationalising the water companies
69% support for nationalising Royal Mail
55% support for nationalising bus companies
57% opposed to privatising the BBC

We’re going round in circles on these political threads.

Those attractive items on a shopping list, as well as large pay rises for police, nurses, doctors, fire fighters, will always go down well as singular questions.

But when asked about who you trust with the economy? are Labour’s plans in overall terms affordable? the answer is always no.

 

[Beach Hut]

Yet - in the past week

64% support for nationalising the railways
63% support for nationalising the water companies
69% support for nationalising Royal Mail
55% support for nationalising bus companies
57% opposed to privatising the BBC

Once you have learnt what working class is, l may engage

 

[Lever]

I went to a rough and tumble state comp (grammars had long been abolished by Tory and Labour councils by the time I was 11), of ‘working class’ roots whatever that means. Of my own volition and resilience I worked through exams as an adult. When I look back, it was a desire to improve myself, not necessarily for the money. I know many other NSC’ers the same. I never felt bitter that Rupert’s went to independent schools, or ‘middle class’ kids got coaching for O and A Levels. People in this country are in the main optimists, albeit with concerns for problems. The angry doom and gloom of Thornberry, Long-Bailey, Abbott, the deliberate strategy to divide us into the haves and have-nots, will never wash with the overwhelming majority of voters.

My hope just now, we can’t change the result, is that the government do look after the needs of those genuinely in need, whilst helping more or us make the best of ourselves.

Mmh.....
....with the track record of succeeding tory governments, I fear it may represent a triumph of hope over experience........

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Exactly. I had to spend 4 years living abroad to learn that you can be on the left and aspirational. I wanted to own my own home, not get on the council house list. It took me those 4 years to get my 'working class chip' off my shoulder.

I come from a working class family - my father was a block-layer and my mother a shop assistant - I own my own home - and I never had to cast off any 'working class chip' to do it

But....if Labour is only for the 'ordinary working class' (pronounced claas, not clarse) they will never ever form a government again. The 'ordinary working class' as a self-defined group probably amounts to 10 million people, and a good proportion of them don't vote.

Rather condescending in your attitude to a section of the working class there aren't you

99% of Americans define themselves as middle class.

Not true - the figure is actually 49% - but only one third of those (17%) are satisfied with their financial situation.

Here is another one - 43% of Americans support socialism - and the number rises to 50% for those under the age of 40.

The numbers are not as high here but they are far higher than momentum labour seems to think. We have not just shy tories, but shy 'middle class'.

60% of Britons regard themselves as working class (despite both the Tories and the Blairites declaring 'we are all middle-class now')

And the solution is not to try to bully people like me into admitting I am just ordinary, and should not get all high and mighty and hoity toity just because I have pulled myself out of the gutter via education. Yes, slap me down, till I am humble, and then I'll gladly embrace the red rose of socialism. That'll work.

The better the standard of education that you have the better your chances of getting out of the gutter - but it is not a guarantee - and the objective should be to make equality of educational opportunity available for all - instead Blair was the architect of the privatisation of education in Britain.

And if I reject that then I am just a pale pink tory Blairite.....'dismissed' as worthless - not even worth bothering attempting to convince to vote labour. The arrogance of failure.

Actually you are displaying all the arrogance of a Blairite - suggesting that you needed to get rid of a chip on your shoulder in order to own a house - being dismissive of the 'ordinary working class' - getting upset when someone suggest that as a Blairite you support Tory policies, yet then adopting a typical Tory approach to education - that it is the fault of working class people that they are in the 'gutter' because they don't, as Norman Tebbit claimed - 'get on yer bike'

It has been a long time since I have seen such stupidity. 1984 I think it was.

Clearly you are looking through some superiority tinted glasses.

No, the real traitors, the betrayers of hope, are the Corbyn followers (not so much Corbyn himself, he's too hopeless to be the mastermind of anything). You have to embrace the nation to win, and the nation can smell a zealot. Unfortunately for Corbyn, the nation dislikes the smell of a zealot more than the smell of a chancer/bullshitter, which is how Boris won. Blair in his pomp would have wiped the floor with Boris.

'embracing a nation' = doing what the rich elites demand

'smell of a zealot' = you mean like Rachel 'we will be tougher than the Tories on benefits' - given than Milliband in 2015, Brown in 2010 and Blair in 2005 got less votes than Corbyn in 2019 (and substantially less than Corbyn in 2017) - I would suggest that the zealot is someone who thinks that Blairism has a future.

Anyway, as a lifelong labour voter, I should be easy to persuade to vote labour again. I will probably vote labour again despite the cockwomblery of the likes of JRG. But those a little right of centre who voted for Blair....these are necessary voters. They aren't coming back any time soon....

People will be convinced to vote Labour by Labour adopting and promoting socialist policies - policies that not only benefit the working class but also the every shrinking middle-class in Tory Britain. You can choose to vote for a LP that advocates those policies - or you can choose to support the pro-neo-liberal Tory policies of Blairism - but the Tories will get the votes because they are just better at this stuff than the Blairites.

If Corbyn labour is happy to lose again in 2014, confident that the nation will wise up and vote labour in again eventually....they need to take a hard look at themselves because this is a betrayal of the nation - allowing Boris to spaff all over us while they distill their party into their view of left purity. Disgraceful derilection of duty.

It was the Blairites that headed to defeat in 2014 - but Corbyn won't be around in 2024 - he likely will retire from parliament and will probably look back and say 'what a fool I was to listen to McDonnell and cave into the Blairites over brexit' - but society in Britain will be utterly altered in five years time - and the Blairites are already a busted flush. Here is hoping that if RLB gets the leadership that she does what Corbyn failed to do and implement mandatory reselection for LP candidates at national and local elections - otherwise we will see a repeat of the last 4 years with the Blairites continuing to sabotage the potential of the LP defeating the Tories.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I went to a rough and tumble state comp (grammars had long been abolished by Tory and Labour councils by the time I was 11), of ‘working class’ roots whatever that means. Of my own volition and resilience I worked through exams as an adult. When I look back, it was a desire to improve myself, not necessarily for the money. I know many other NSC’ers the same. I never felt bitter that Rupert’s went to independent schools, or ‘middle class’ kids got coaching for O and A Levels. People in this country are in the main optimists, albeit with concerns for problems. The angry doom and gloom of Thornberry, Long-Bailey, Abbott, the deliberate strategy to divide us into the haves and have-nots, will never wash with the overwhelming majority of voters.

Yep, similar to me

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

We’re going round in circles on these political threads.

Those attractive items on a shopping list, as well as large pay rises for police, nurses, doctors, fire fighters, will always go down well as singular questions.

But when asked about who you trust with the economy? are Labour’s plans in overall terms affordable? the answer is always no.

Well given that Britain is the 5th (or 7th depending on the measure) richest country in the world - I guarantee that Britain can afford every measure proposed by the Corbyn manifesto - it was a far less radical (and less costly) manifesto than that of 1945 when many parts of Britain was largely in ruins after the war - yet the LP were able to implement that manifesto with little difficulty.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Once you have learnt what working class is, l may engage

Anyone who works by hand or brain for a wage or salary (when they are given the opportunity to do so).

 

[Weststander]

Well given that Britain is the 5th (or 7th depending on the measure) richest country in the world - I guarantee that Britain can afford every measure proposed by the Corbyn manifesto - it was a far less radical (and less costly) manifesto than that of 1945 when many parts of Britain was largely in ruins after the war - yet the LP were able to implement that manifesto with little difficulty.

It couldn’t. The independent IFS said the Labour manifesto ‘budget’ (and the Tory plans) “were not credible”.

So a Momentum government would either have had to:

a) Tax everyone else below £80k far more heavily; or
b) Not embark on a large part of all the promises.

 

[Beach Hut]

Anyone who works by hand or brain for a wage or salary (when they are given the opportunity to do so).

I think this may not work but do you class all CEOs of footsie 100 companies as working class ?

 

[clapham_gull]

I think this may not work but do you class all CEOs of footsie 100 companies as working class ?

If they own shares yes, if not so no.

 

[BensGrandad]

Yet - in the past week

64% support for nationalising the railways
63% support for nationalising the water companies
69% support for nationalising Royal Mail
55% support for nationalising bus companies
57% opposed to privatising the BBC

What are they % of the labour party membership?

 

[beorhthelm]

I think this may not work but do you class all CEOs of footsie 100 companies as working class ?

it is a very odd definition, CEO is working class but a self employed tradesman isnt.