[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Guinness Boy]

I know it is difficult to understand for the metropolitan Southern Left but many people have no interest in the concerns and obsessions of middle class Liberals.

It's almost like you think the Tories *aren't* southern, middle class Liberals. Although, to be fair, many of them are southern, upper class neo-liberals.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Personally i would wait until the dust has settled, there is bound to be a period of in fighting and recriminations.
Too early to say who is going to come out unscathed or even if Corbyn trying to influence on his way out will cause potential leaders harm.
Keep an eye out for whoever hunkers down, stays out of a public binfest and keeps a low profile for a while......then bet big

Wise words, unfortunately for the country Labour will probably be spending most of 2020 looking inwards tearing lumps out of each other as various factions fight to get their preferred candidate the top job.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m not sure on what basis you can make this claim about what people are saying. Going from voting Labour to Tory is not the jump you think it is for the Northern working class. My in-laws are a mixture of working class Tory and Labour voters. All from the same background. I know it is difficult to understand for the metropolitan Southern Left but many people have no interest in the concerns and obsessions of middle class Liberals.

Which prompts me to comment that I find myself strangely relaxed and even happy at the moment. My working class roots showing, perhaps.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yeah, I don't understand why people are saying Labour are out for two terms. By the time of the next election, we'll have had a Tory government for 14 years - it's very rare for one party to stay in power for that long: Blair's government didn't do it, Macmillan didn't do it and Major's government lost the next election when it reached 14 years.

This last election was particularly volatile with several million voting Tory purely because of Brexit, once that's no longer an issue, they'll need of lot of persuading to stay. It could happen but it would mean Johnson doing things that don't come naturally to a Conservative government

the thing is that tradition has been broken, tens of thousands that always defaulted to Labour went Conservative (or others). some may go back, some may stay, some may go other. the point is a large block of the country is now up for grabs. for Labour to turn around 200 seats to 326 to form a government will require a significant change of leadership and core policy.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Starmer or Benn for me.

Starmer does have a funny strangulated little voice that may disadvantage him, however.

 

[Wozza]

Interesting quotes from Bolsover...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371

 

[Weststander]

Listening to 5Live and LBC this morning, youngish sounding Labour bloggers and ‘journalists’, stated that “the party”s mistake this time around was not being left wing enough, it’s manifesto didn’t go far enough. That Yvette Cooper, Stephen Kinnock, Caroline Flint and their like are all Red Tories”

Not joking, it appears that a completely different party such as the Workers Revolutionary Party, with the help of some Labour mates, has taken over the party where it counts.

Spectacularly handing control of this for the foreseeable future, to every other political party.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Listening to 5Live and LBC this morning, youngish sounding Labour bloggers and ‘journalists’, stated that “the party”s mistake this time around was not being left wing enough, it’s manifesto didn’t go far enough. That Yvette Cooper, Stephen Kinnock, Caroline Flint and their like are all Red Tories”

Not joking, it appears that a completely different party such as the Workers Revolutionary Party, with the help of some Labour mates, has taken over the party where it counts.

Spectacularly handing control of this for the foreseeable future, to every other political party.

Sums it up. Doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. I have a lot of time for Stephen Kinnock as he is a Remainer who accepted the result of the Referendum.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Listening to 5Live and LBC this morning, youngish sounding Labour bloggers and ‘journalists’, stated that “the party”s mistake this time around was not being left wing enough, it’s manifesto didn’t go far enough. That Yvette Cooper, Stephen Kinnock, Caroline Flint and their like are all Red Tories”

Not joking, it appears that a completely different party such as the Workers Revolutionary Party, with the help of some Labour mates, has taken over the party where it counts.

Spectacularly handing control of this for the foreseeable future, to every other political party.

And yet the people on the ground who used to vote for them but didn't this time say that it was because they did not like or trust Jeremy Corbyn, had their Brexit vote ignored by their MP and did not believe that their manifesto was credible.

Years more infighting in the Labour Party I reckon, or a split into 2

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's almost like you think the Tories *aren't* southern, middle class Liberals. Although, to be fair, many of them are southern, upper class neo-liberals.

On the contrary, I do think many Tories are Southern liberals, including Boris who isn’t actually a right wing extremist at all. However, I am not talking about who they are but rather what they stand for. Tories have embraced Brexit and they are a business party. That resonates with many working class people who do not have the time or inclination to worry about Corbynista student union issues. I am not making any personal comment but just trying to answer the question that many are struggling to answer ie ‘why are the Tories getting elected in the Labour heartland ?’
If the response of the Labour Party and it’s southern supporters is similar to the post referendum period ie to insult its ex supporters and repeatedly to explain why they are thickos then the outcome may be further declines in 2024. People have long memories.

 

[BLOCK F]

I see Starmer is odds-on favourite. I'm surprised at that: I think he'd be an excellent leader but I can't believe that much of the membership thinks that way

I know nothing of Kier Starmer's views, he's obviously got a good brain, but would he be considered to be too 'Islingtonish'?
Would a Starmer watcher please be kind enough to give me a short resume

 

[Surf's Up]

If they want to have a cat in hells chance of winning another election in my lifetime a toss up between Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips or Keir Starmer. If they want to continue down the loony left, Momentum led descent into electoral oblivion John McDonnell (except he doesn't have the balls to stick his neck up over the parapet), Diane Abbott (what else is there to say?), Rebecca Long-Baily (the "groomed" candidate - looks as though she's sucking lemons whenever caught off camera) or Angela Rayner - probably the best of a very bad bunch and probably capable of single handedly ripping the Tories apart, not as tied to the left as the others.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I see Starmer drifting already and RLB and Rayner are shortening.

I'm going to put some of my hard-earned on Rayner. As I said earlier, she ticks all the boxes - the next leader has to be northern and she's sharper than RLB.

I see that Miliband (D) and Cooper are high in the betting - who on earth would waste their money on those? They should be about 200-1

I agree with you that the next leader has to be northern, but I did read somewhere (I think The Times) a while back that a fair number in Momentum don't like Rayner as she's 'too working class'.

 

[dingodan]

On the contrary, I do think many Tories are Southern liberals, including Boris who isn’t actually a right wing extremist at all. However, I am not talking about who they are but rather what they stand for. Tories have embraced Brexit and they are a business party. That resonates with many working class people who do not have the time or inclination to worry about Corbynista student union issues. I am not making any personal comment but just trying to answer the question that many are struggling to answer ie ‘why are the Tories getting elected in the Labour heartland ?’
If the response of the Labour Party and it’s southern supporters is similar to the post referendum period ie to insult its ex supporters and repeatedly to explain why they are thickos then the outcome may be further declines in 2024. People have long memories.

What the new student politics marxist faction of the Labour Party have failed to realize is that these days their traditional northern working class base, a) have a healthy respect for hard work, b) don't feel automatically entitled to free stuff, and c) don't buy into the politics of envy, they don't automatically resent successful people.

Back in the day, Labour were something like a counterweight to a rather right wing and pretty conservative Conservative Party, who were very very out of touch and unrelatable to any normal working class person. It was an easy choice to vote Labour and feel a dislike for tories. Today's Conservative party is much more in line with ordinary middle and working class voters, much more attuned to modern mainstream liberal attitudes, to be honest, it's really very "small c" Conservative. Meanwhile Labour have gone way to the left, so far to the left in fact that ordinary voters find it easier to relate to a conservative mindset than this new left wing one. What is really crazy, is that at the same time Labour folk say that this is a "far/hard/extreme right" government. Which shows that a) they don't know what far or hard right actually means, b) they have no idea where they are or what they are doing, and c) they have little chance of improving their situtation in the near future.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Lord Such would be an upgrade - but would he want the gig?

 

[dingodan]

Oh and I would like to see Labour go for Emily Thornbury, Jess Phillips or David Lammy as their next leader.

 

[Weststander]

And yet the people on the ground who used to vote for them but didn't this time say that it was because they did not like or trust Jeremy Corbyn, had their Brexit vote ignored by their MP and did not believe that their manifesto was credible.

Years more infighting in the Labour Party I reckon, or a split into 2

The radio callers and guests claimed that this was a one off GE set back for the party, because of Brexit.

One, in citing the failings of the Blair years, included: “In successive elections 1997, 2001 and 2005, Labour lost vote share, resulting in reduced Commons majorities”.

 

[Weststander]

If they want to have a cat in hells chance of winning another election in my lifetime a toss up between Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips or Keir Starmer. If they want to continue down the loony left, Momentum led descent into electoral oblivion John McDonnell (except he doesn't have the balls to stick his neck up over the parapet), Diane Abbott (what else is there to say?), Rebecca Long-Baily (the "groomed" candidate - looks as though she's sucking lemons whenever caught off camera) or Angela Rayner - probably the best of a very bad bunch and probably capable of single handedly ripping the Tories apart, not as tied to the left as the others.

Rayner will never be PM. A miserable, belligerent, whataboutism, interview style, won’t win over the middle ground.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The radio callers and guests claimed that this was a one off GE set back for the party, because of Brexit.

Well they need to come up here and speak to people on the ground. Laura Pidcock is in hiding, still crying that her beloved Jezza is on his way out. The woman who lost in Bishop Auckland was extremely bitter on the news last night. They need to wake up and actually listen to their ex-voters.

Boris is coming up this way today apparently and it will be very interesting to see what he does to repay the faith paid in him up here. Appointing a minister for rejuvenating the north would be a start plus sending the majority of this post-brexit investment up to Yorkshire and beyond would also help. Interesting times - he has a chance to turn this area blue for a generation. Let's see if he can take it.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I'm not sure if I care who the next leader of the Labour Party is. As a liberal left of centre voter who places the environment and society as top priorities I'm wondering what is the point in trying to rely on the labour party and all these 'traditional labour' voters who would sooner throw their lot in with the Tories than try and effect real change