News Flash "Train Crash in Berkshire

[Wardy]

Well it is Railtracks fault that a car could get on the tracks...

How do you work that one out?

The accident happened at a unmaned level crossing. There are thousands of these up and down the country. It is the same as if a car jumps a red light at a normall crossing. Would you blame the Highways Commision for letting cars pass over a junction when they were not allowed?

There was only two ways to have avoided this accident. Firstly the person driving the car could have waited until the barriers went back up, instead of trying to weave his way pass them. Or secondly build bridges or tunnels where there is a crossing. Considering the fact that even if the second option was a possibility I think the billions it would cost would be better used improving road safety and awareness seeing as this was a ROAD accident that just happened to accure at a rail crossing.

 

[Beach Hut]

What appears even more tragic is that there are now suggestions this was a suicide attempt as the car may actually have been further up the line.

 

[Yorkie]

What appears even more tragic is that there are now suggestions this was a suicide attempt as the car may actually have been further up the line.

That is appalling

 

[Wardy]

What appears even more tragic is that there are now suggestions this was a suicide attempt as the car may actually have been further up the line.

I hadn't heard that. Makes it all the more upsetting to those who lost love ones.

 

[Beach Hut]

The press conferences seem very guarded from the police.

I may be wrong but I think there is more to this then has been said so far as there is an obvious need to establish the actual facts when these terrible incidents happen.

 

[Spicy2]

It is amazing that more people didn't die looking at the state of the train.

 

[Beach Hut]

It must have been some impact to derail every carriage.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Leaving the level crossings issue for a moment, my worry is this.

The London to Plymouth train was, according to the news reports I've heard, not very full. I'm assuming that everyone was in their seat when it happened.

I frequently travel on express trains which are overcrowded. Quite often I have to stand, or sit between carriages, on Virgin trains between Carlisle and Scotland or Preston.

Am I going to be afforded the same degree of impact protection sitting in the vestibule, or standing, when a carriage derails as those in their proper seats?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

rip

 

[Cian]

But it would be completely unacceptable for the railway in the UK to operate at a 30mph speed limit.

Its 70MPH here, and 90 on the Belfast line. Even 70 is faster than most of the D/DE/EMU's can run at safely.

As goes the unmanned/manned level crossing thing - in Ireland, all trains have TPS installed and have had for years, since the 1960's in fact. A car across the tracks at a level crossing breaks the circuit, which instantly puts the brakes on in any train on the same signalling loop. Railtrack and the TOC's could have implemented full TPS years ago, as could have British Rail before them. But they didn't

 

[dougdeep]

Terrorism on the cheap?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Its 70MPH here, and 90 on the Belfast line. Even 70 is faster than most of the D/DE/EMU's can run at safely.

Those speeds don't deliver "line of sight" driving & braking capability for level crossings (which is what you were claiming earlier on).

As goes the unmanned/manned level crossing thing - in Ireland, all trains have TPS installed and have had for years, since the 1960's in fact. A car across the tracks at a level crossing breaks the circuit, which instantly puts the brakes on in any train on the same signalling loop. Railtrack and the TOC's could have implemented full TPS years ago, as could have British Rail before them. But they didn't

I'm not arguing the case for non-investment in automating train protection systems, but ... I'm not aware that the systems designed in the sixties detect cars in the way that you suggest.

Ireland does have fatal crashes on level crossings. It's difficult to make direct comparisons because of variations in traffic levels, but ... between 1996 and 2002, there were 21 level crossing collisions in Ireland, with 4 deaths. The GB figures were 179 collisions and 12 deaths. (European Commission Report on Safety at Level Crossings, Dec 2003)

 

[Cian]

There are collisions, but there have been no deaths of those actually on the trains. Also, the figures are reducing year on year as more level crossings get full barriers and become automated with cameras

The system we use is pre-1960's and works on the basis of both pressure on the tracks and magnetic circuit breaking. It can detect cars on the tracks.

EDIT

I also biked down to the local level crossing and theres a limit of 50 for probably a quarter of a mile each side of it.

We also have less crossings as the train lines were usually cut under the road level (south dublin) or elevated above it (north dublin). In rural areas they were bridged.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

We also have less crossings as the train lines were usually cut under the road level (south dublin) or elevated above it (north dublin). In rural areas they were bridged.

Eh?

Ireland had 1,976 level crossings in 1998. Great Britain had 8,323. Even allowing for any recent conversions to bridges, that's got to be more crossings per mile of rail track in Ireland than in Britain.

 

[Cian]

Eh?

Ireland had 1,976 level crossings in 1998. Great Britain had 8,323. Even allowing for any recent conversions to bridges, that's got to be more crossings per mile of rail track in Ireland than in Britain.

We also only run trains on 1/3 of our network - theres miles and miles of rural tracks that would have "crossings" that haven't had trains on them in 30-70 years. Take the North Kerry lines, Tara Mines/North Wal branches, West Coast Corridor, Dungarvan -all laid down, all not run, all have lots of crossings on them. The North Wall line is a tramway....

On my 20 mile journey into town I pass through Leixlip Intel crossing (recently made automatic, camera monitored), Clonsilla 1 (automatic, camera monitored) and Clonsilla 2 (at the station, manual). Then its onto elevated track.

The route out the other side of my town, to Sligo, possibly has a lot more crossings per distance covered, but at 6 trains a day, they're less used

Our gates also close up to two minutes before the train, if they're automatic. Take Merrion Gates, the most hit crossing gates in the country - they close half gates 90 seconds before the next train, and full gates sixty seconds before.

It'd have to be a determined suicide to get onto the tracks in that time. And as they're camera monitored, even if it didn't trip the TPS, the control centre would.

Obviously not all crossings are automatic, or camera monitored, but they all have TPS.

Even some of the closed lines have TPS...

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It must have been some impact to derail every carriage.

The latest reports suggest that the train wasn't derailed as a result of impact with the car. It seems to have remained upright for some time, derailing only after passing over the points at a junction some way beyond the level crossing.

Even at speed, trains normally don't roll over when they hit a light vehicle.

As with all rail crashes, there will be a long and detailed investigation. It would be a mistake to jump to conclusions too soon, particularly to the conclusion that some bandwagon jumpers already seem to have reached - 'Automatic half-barrier level crossings are so dangerous that the nation should spend BILLIONS of pounds replacing them with bridges'.

If we are going to spend billions on transport safety, there are many more projects that would give better value for money.

 

[Wilts]

Whatever the cause of the accident, please spare a thought for a great deal of us Reading citizens who have now had three train tragedies in 7 years now, with Southall, Ladbroke Grove, and now this one on the same line. Whoever is at fault, the accident happened after the Reading vs Stoke game on Saturday and the whole fact that many Reading fans were travelling back home to Newbury brings it all closer to home. On the Reading FC fansite there is a story from one poster who survived the crash, and I imagine what with the hundreds of casualties in the Royal Berkshire Hospital at the moment, that many more stories will appear during the week.

I hope that the death toll will cease to increase, and all those injured casualties make a speedy and full recovery. Incidents like this are tragic no matter who are involved, but the fact that it is Reading FC fans on their way home from the Stoke game just makes it even more upsetting to me. Football fans or not, it is obviously a tragedy, but feels really sad considering a high proportion of people on the train share the same passion for my local club that I do and were simply out to watch their team play.

There are too many accidents on this line, and it is now beginning to frighten me travelling to London from back home. Silly thing to think of because "lightning never strikes twice in the same place", and "there's around 70 trains a day in that line, and only 3 have crashed in 10 years", but to me its very worrying...