New Stadium + Poor Crowds + Poor Form = Administration

[Albion Rob]

Ok, we've looked at Darlo and Huddersfield, but there are other sides to the coin.

Think of Leicester. I was up there a couple of weeks ago and every f***ing thing that was happening in the place revolved around the stadium. From grannies going there for Xmas dinner to all manner of functions and exhibitions. The local paper does a good job up there and they ahve that Northern Community style thing going on, but there is no reason it couldn't go on down here.

Give the local reporters something easy to write about (free tours for handicapped kids? I dunno) and then Hey Presto! there is a bit of free publicity for the club.

Also, concerts. I heard that the reason Brighton doesn't get many top acts down here is because the Brighton Centre isn't big enough. Sod it, get them down to Falmer. I don't know if stadiums are included on tours, but I'm sure the summer months would be accomodating to Justin Timberlake et al.

I agree that sometimes it does all go tits uo but with all due respect Port Vale are the shit of the Potteries and most people if they were asked to list the 92 football league clubs would probably have Darlo in the last 15 or so. In short they make us look like Inter Milan.

As far as it working well is concerned, I hate to say it, but Reading are a case in point. Shiny new ground which they sometimes fill but they do have the other stuff there too, and we have a bigger fan base than them. Stoke also have had a new stadium and although it holds 28,000 and they get around 12,000 per game they still seem to do ok, or at least haven't ended up in the shit.

Falmer can and will work, with a pro-active club keeping ticket prices reasonable and keeping the club in the consciousness of the local public there is no reason why it couldn't prosper and we could become a Southampton - in fact we should use them as the model as they have gone from strength to strength since they left their pokey ground.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Ok, we've looked at Darlo and Huddersfield, but there are other sides to the coin.

Think of Leicester. I was up there a couple of weeks ago and every f***ing thing that was happening in the place revolved around the stadium. From grannies going there for Xmas dinner to all manner of functions and exhibitions. The local paper does a good job up there and they ahve that Northern Community style thing going on, but there is no reason it couldn't go on down here.

Give the local reporters something easy to write about (free tours for handicapped kids? I dunno) and then Hey Presto! there is a bit of free publicity for the club.

Also, concerts. I heard that the reason Brighton doesn't get many top acts down here is because the Brighton Centre isn't big enough. Sod it, get them down to Falmer. I don't know if stadiums are included on tours, but I'm sure the summer months would be accomodating to Justin Timberlake et al.

I agree that sometimes it does all go tits uo but with all due respect Port Vale are the shit of the Potteries and most people if they were asked to list the 92 football league clubs would probably have Darlo in the last 15 or so. In short they make us look like Inter Milan.

As far as it working well is concerned, I hate to say it, but Reading are a case in point. Shiny new ground which they sometimes fill but they do have the other stuff there too, and we have a bigger fan base than them. Stoke also have had a new stadium and although it holds 28,000 and they get around 12,000 per game they still seem to do ok, or at least haven't ended up in the shit.

Falmer can and will work, with a pro-active club keeping ticket prices reasonable and keeping the club in the consciousness of the local public there is no reason why it couldn't prosper and we could become a Southampton - in fact we should use them as the model as they have gone from strength to strength since they left their pokey ground.

Rob mate, your example of Leicester and Southampton are perfectly admirable - apart from the fact that both are in the Premiership and both have had money pumped into the playing side for yonks. Still reckon 'doing a Reading' is the way forward - apart from nicking other clubs managers that is...

 

[Yorkie]

Well said Rob.

That is the point I have been trying to make. The stadium will not just rely on football to pay for it. Other events can take place there.

 

[Safeway]

WHY? There's businessmen behind these stadiums, they do business plans, they think they know their catchments areas, they're fully expecting a big return on their investments - and there's a damn sight less in the way of alternative entertainment for Darlington and port Vale fans than there is for us spoilt brats in BN1. I think the Albion have absolutely no sound basis for assuming if they build a wizzy new stadium it'll automatically fill up. Better have a bloody good product available when the new stadium's ready I'd say is the bottom line.

Whether or not there's a lack of entertainment in the Darlington/Burslem areas, these teams have consistantly had poor crowds. Whereas the last time we played a season in a football ground in our own town we averaged over 9,000 (second only to the promoted Fulham), and that was finishing second bottom in the Third Division. Comparisons with Darlington simply don't work.

Businessmen may think a lot of things, but in football they have a history of getting it wrong. Football isn't just another business, and that is precisely why the Darlington move was always doomed to failure, and why we will be okay.

Football fans aren't stupid, but they are bloody stubborn and loyal. Regardless of where we are in the league when Falmer finally arrives, I fully expect it to be full for the first game and to maintain a decent percentage of capacity from there on.

 

[Spiros]

Spiros - I'd just point you to me reply to Safeway which says there businessmen with business plans behind Darlo and every other new ground. The Madstad is probably our best business model. Which involved Madjeski bankrolling the playing side as well as financing the stadium. All I'm saying is the Albion neglect investing in the playing side at their peril. And if we ain't got no money, then go out and find an ethical investor who has. Or float shares and see how many get taken up. There's ways and means as long as the will is there.

My understanding of the Reading model is that Madjetski built the stadium, bailed out the playing side but now expects the football club to pay it's way. You are probably right about business plans, but Darlo's must have made entertaining reading 'we've been in the bottom division for many years and drawn crowds of 5,000 but we're going to build a 24,000 all-seater stadium'. I think this is an example of someone in full control of a club just doing what he wants without having to satisfy the bank manager that what he is doing is sound.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I like this thread. Lot of non-abusive constructive stuff. In the end, tho we all got different thoughts on the subject, we all desperatately want the same thing.

STAND UP IF YOU WANT FALMER

 

[Safeway]

SHUT UP YOU f***ing................no wait, you're right.

Falmer for All!!

 

[Yorkie]

 

[berkshire seagull]

AND REMEMBER

WE CANT EVEN FILL WITHDEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love to agree about that,but withdean is the prob not the fans and could think of many reasons not to go to the shite hole.

In the 1st last season we could have sold between 20-30k tickets for many some games while at the bottom.

Withdean has run its course and crowds will slump as yet again lack of money has crippled the club.

WILL IT EVEREND?

 

[Storer68]

Rob mate, your example of Leicester and Southampton are perfectly admirable - apart from the fact that both are in the Premiership and both have had money pumped into the playing side for yonks. Still reckon 'doing a Reading' is the way forward - apart from nicking other clubs managers that is...

Ok then - look at Hull.

and then look at Charlton, Bolton, Stoke, Walsall (holding their own in Div.1), Man City,

Fantastic new stadium and attendances suddenly rocket.

 

[Safeway]

Withdean has run its course and crowds will slump as yet again lack of money has crippled the club.

WILL IT EVEREND?

Err, yeah. When Falmer's built.

 

[Storer68]

AND REMEMBER

WE CANT EVEN FILL WITHDEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fec me - face facts - Withdean is at 90% capacity this season - suggests Albion sell out and away clubs don't


Team Pld Total Highest Average Capacity Pct
1 Hull City (3-D3) 13 202661 23006 15589 15160 102.8%
2 Norwich City (1-D1) 13 212818 16429 16371 16227 100.8%
3 Newcastle United (7-PR) 10 520545 52165 52055 52218 99.6%
4 Manchester United (1-PR) 10 676589 67748 67659 68174 99.2%
5 Charlton Athletic (4-PR) 9 237427 26768 26381 26700 98.8%
6 Arsenal (2-PR) 9 342204 38172 38023 38500 98.7%
7 Southampton (8-PR) 10 315955 32151 31596 32000 98.7%
8 Wolverhampton Wndrs (20-PR) 8 230673 29386 28834 29400 98.0%
9 Manchester City (13-PR) 9 421470 47201 46830 48000 97.5%
10 Chelsea (3-PR) 9 370833 41932 41204 42449 97.0%
11 Everton (11-PR) 10 387846 40228 38785 40170 96.5%
12 Birmingham City (9-PR) 9 260358 29588 28929 30009 96.4%
13 Leicester City (17-PR) 10 312581 32148 31258 32500 96.1%
14 Liverpool (6-PR) 9 391518 44374 43502 45362 95.8%
15 Tottenham Hotspur (18-PR) 10 345939 36137 34594 36236 95.4%
16 Bolton Wanderers (12-PR) 9 238331 28353 26481 27879 94.9%
17 Brighton & Hove Albion (5-D2) 12 75169 6604 6264 6960 90.0%
18 Leeds United (19-PR) 10 359395 40153 35940 40204 89.3%
19 West Bromwich Albion (2-D1) 13 317665 27195 24436 28003 87.2%
20 Middlesbrough (15-PR) 10 305291 34738 30529 35049 87.1%
21 West Ham United (7-D1) 13 402178 35021 30937 35647 86.7%
22 Fulham (5-PR) 10 161479 18244 16148 19148 84.3%
23 Doncaster Rovers (2-D3) 12 77277 8961 6440 7758 83.0%
24 Ipswich Town (5-D1) 13 319888 30152 24607 30300 81.2%
25 Gillingham (15-D1) 13 110435 11418 8495 10600 80.1%
26 Aston Villa (10-PR) 9 306396 42573 34044 42719 79.6%
27 Cardiff City (12-D1) 13 205892 19202 15838 20000 79.1%
28 Nottingham Forest (20-D1) 12 285837 29059 23820 30602 77.8%
29 Crewe Alexandra (11-D1) 13 101412 9807 7801 10046 77.6%
30 Queens Park Rangers (2-D2) 12 174984 17393 14582 19148 76.1%
31 Portsmouth (16-PR) 9 180819 20123 20091 26452 75.9%
32 Blackburn Rovers (14-PR) 9 212784 30074 23643 31367 75.3%
33 Hartlepool United (10-D2) 12 64740 7448 5395 7229 74.6%
34 Walsall (13-D1) 13 104979 11030 8075 11300 71.4%
35 Sheffield United (3-D1) 13 280171 27008 21552 30936 69.6%
36 AFC Bournemouth (14-D2) 12 83018 8901 6918 9986 69.2%
37 Watford (19-D1) 13 185392 20950 14261 20800 68.5%
38 Preston North End (8-D1) 13 184353 18802 14181 21412 66.2%
39 Rushden & Diamonds (11-D2) 12 52313 5544 4359 6635 65.6%
40 Yeovil Town (5-D3) 12 69206 7718 5767 8820 65.3%
41 Northampton Town (13-D3) 12 58100 6011 4842 7653 63.2%
42 Swansea City (6-D3) 12 88923 9800 7410 11742 63.1%
43 Derby County (22-D1) 12 254326 23783 21194 33597 63.0%
44 Coventry City (17-D1) 13 192084 21132 14776 23633 62.5%
45 Bristol Rovers (14-D3) 12 87369 9812 7281 11976 60.7%
46 Luton Town (7-D2) 12 72703 8339 6059 9975 60.7%
47 Rotherham United (16-D1) 13 89474 11455 6883 11514 59.7%
48 Crystal Palace (18-D1) 13 204653 19737 15743 26400 59.6%
49 Reading (9-D1) 13 181680 16833 13975 24200 57.7%
50 Sheffield Wednesday (17-D2) 12 271073 25296 22589 39859 56.6%
51 Cheltenham Town (21-D3) 12 48664 5319 4055 7407 54.7%
52 Sunderland (4-D1) 13 341919 36278 26301 48300 54.4%
53 Blackpool (13-D2) 12 71592 8340 5966 11000 54.2%
54 Shrewsbury Town (5-FC) 11 47687 6738 4335 8000 54.1%
55 Bristol City (3-D2) 12 136273 14294 11356 21479 52.8%
56 Plymouth Argyle (1-D2) 12 126797 17882 10566 20134 52.4%
57 Burnley (21-D1) 13 151827 13231 11679 22546 51.8%
58 Oxford United (1-D3) 12 76703 9477 6392 12500 51.1%
59 Wycombe Wanderers (24-D2) 12 60627 6445 5052 10000 50.5%
60 Millwall (10-D1) 13 131560 14425 10120 20146 50.2%
61 Mansfield Town (4-D3) 12 60065 6963 5005 9990 50.1%
62 Colchester United (9-D2) 12 45077 5083 3756 7556 49.7%
63 Stoke City (14-D1) 13 177215 20126 13632 28384 48.0%
64 Torquay United (8-D3) 12 35916 4447 2993 6283 47.6%
65 Swindon Town (12-D2) 12 89768 10573 7481 15728 47.5%
66 Grimsby Town (16-D2) 11 51048 6172 4641 10033 46.2%
67 York City (10-D3) 12 50092 7923 4174 9034 46.2%
68 Chester City (1-FC) 13 35742 4665 2749 6000 45.8%
69 Tranmere Rovers (15-D2) 12 89571 9645 7464 16587 44.9%
70 Oldham Athletic (18-D2) 12 72830 7015 6069 13559 44.7%
71 Bradford City (23-D1) 13 145217 14116 11171 25136 44.4%
72 Kidderminster Harriers (16-D3) 12 33066 3411 2756 6237 44.1%
73 Barnsley (4-D2) 12 122844 20438 10237 23186 44.1%
74 Scunthorpe United (11-D3) 12 48376 6426 4031 9183 43.8%
75 Chesterfield (22-D2) 12 46820 5605 3902 8960 43.5%
76 Boston United (18-D3) 12 34406 5708 2867 6600 43.4%
77 Cambridge United (12-D3) 12 49109 5368 4092 9617 42.5%
78 Aldershot Town (3-FC) 12 37595 4637 3133 7500 41.7%
79 Stockport County (21-D2) 12 57803 6256 4817 11541 41.7%
80 Brentford (19-D2) 12 63748 8631 5312 12763 41.6%
81 Lincoln City (7-D3) 11 47654 5718 4332 10918 39.6%
82 Telford United (11-FC) 12 21795 2830 1816 4600 39.4%
83 Accrington Stanley (7-FC) 13 25808 3143 1985 5057 39.2%
84 Hereford United (2-FC) 13 44844 4985 3450 8843 39.0%
85 Huddersfield Town (9-D3) 12 114253 13893 9521 24500 38.8%
86 Burton (12-FC) 12 22866 3203 1906 5000 38.1%
87 Woking (8-FC) 13 29510 2906 2270 6000 37.8%
88 Macclesfield Town (19-D3) 12 28670 3578 2389 6335 37.7%
89 Wigan Athletic (6-D1) 13 118894 12874 9146 25000 36.5%
90 Peterborough United (20-D2) 12 66800 10194 5567 15314 36.3%
91 Exeter City (6-FC) 12 37747 3723 3146 9036 34.8%
92 Southend United (22-D3) 12 50125 6449 4177 12392 33.7%
93 Tamworth (19-FC) 12 16176 2250 1348 4065 33.1%
94 Gravesend (17-FC) 12 13122 1477 1094 3300 33.1%
95 Stevenage Borough (13-FC) 12 25180 3019 2098 6546 32.0%
96 Leyton Orient (15-D3) 12 47888 5194 3991 12573 31.7%
97 Barnet (4-FC) 11 18096 2208 1645 5560 29.5%
98 Carlisle United (24-D3) 12 58902 8369 4909 16651 29.4%
99 Rochdale (20-D3) 12 35961 4626 2997 10249 29.2%
100 Wrexham (6-D2) 12 54022 6171 4502 15500 29.0%
101 Bury (17-D3) 12 38155 4591 3180 11669 27.2%
102 Forest Green Rovers (16-FC) 12 9744 1576 812 3030 26.7%
103 Port Vale (8-D2) 11 63733 7809 5794 22356 25.9%
104 Morecambe (9-FC) 12 19418 1959 1618 6300 25.6%
105 Notts County (23-D2) 12 61304 7702 5109 20300 25.1%
106 Dagenham & Redbridge (14-FC) 13 18989 1948 1461 6000 24.3%
107 Scarborough (15-FC) 12 15651 1624 1304 6899 18.9%
108 Darlington (23-D3) 13 65786 11600 5060 27500 18.4%
109 Farnborough Town (20-FC) 13 10701 1403 823 4900 16.7%
110 Wimbledon (24-D1) 12 51032 8118 4253 26400 16.1%
111 Northwich Victoria (22-FC) 12 8535 1008 711 6000 11.8%
112 Halifax Town (10-FC) 13 21421 2160 1648 14000 11.7%
113 Margate (18-FC) 11 7750 1030 705 6000 11.7%
114 Leigh RMI (21-FC) 11 6274 1219 570 8500 6.7%

 

[Brady's Old Lady]

The thing is haven't Darlington thrown loads of money at the team in the past. Whether its by luck judgement or whatever, we have made the VERY BEST of VERY LIMITED resources over the last 5 years, which is why I think when Falmer is given the green light, things will get even better, but gradually. There will be no "Big Bang".

 

[Beach Hut]

I think there is a general apathy towards Withdean.

Started of very good but now very tiresome. It was cringe worthy last season - we want must have taken over 746 to every away game yet that was all we offered back.

Falmer is the way forward and many of the casual fans can no longer be bothered with the current set up.

 

[Safeway]

Quality bit of 'c & p' from Storer there, good work. One question though. How the f*** do you fill your ground to 102.8% capacity? Surely that's got to contavene some health and safety regulation.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Going back to the choice between spending now on players or the stadium bid, the reality is that while Div 2 IS weak this season it is also likely to be weak next season as well.

Therefore, there is no urgent need to spend now on players if we can bide our time until the stadium is finally being built before we are able to build a proper team to be able to achieve promotion and compete in Div 1.

I reckon DK has learned from last season and can see that it just ain't possible for us to be a Div 1 team until the ground is almost / finally built.

 

[Albion Rob]

Rob mate, your example of Leicester and Southampton are perfectly admirable - apart from the fact that both are in the Premiership and both have had money pumped into the playing side for yonks. Still reckon 'doing a Reading' is the way forward - apart from nicking other clubs managers that is...

It's all relative though, isn't it Tom?

Leicester and Southampton have 32.500 capacity stadia (same design I think, just different seats) and both had immediate Premiership ambitions.

We are looking at a 22,000 seater stadium with the 5-8 year goal being becoming a solid Division One club before making the push for the Premiership.

Like I say, it is going to be all about making the stadium accesible for everyone in the community with the football taking over on matchdays.

Also, I don't think Southampton or Leicester have exactly had monet pumped into them, the Foxes had to cheat their way out of administration while I can't remember the last time Southampton shelled out big money on a transfer fee. They do however, have two of the most astute managers in the game.

My plan - get money coming into the stadium every day of the week, from boot sales to tours to concerts to bhusiness meetings. Promote the stadium well and keep people involved. Keep ticket proces reasonable and make a decent profit off BEER and food sales at the ground at last. Stop paying Ecovert rent. Make this club great again.

f*** this, give me a job at the Albion now. Stadium manager would do.

 

[Brovion]

It's a balancing act. It's all very well the likes of FG and THPP saying "Dick Tight must invest in the team" (or variations on that theme) but where is the money going to come from? There are only two ways - either the club goes into debt or we invite in another Archer figure.

I'm even going to go a stage further and for the sake of arguement ask 'Why does the team have to be improved?' We're fifth - Darlington are 2nd from bottom. We've got a good home record and as has been mentioned a far bigger catchment area. Also even if we were bottom initially matches at Falmer will 'sell themselves' as there will be the novelty of watching Brighton in a proper stadium which will appeal to lapsed fans, neutrals and groundhoppers.

So, no, don't invest in the team if it means going into debt or bringing in another Archer. The club's finances are still a bit rocky so I think we should actually spend LESS on the team. Concentrate on bringing the youngsters on and get rid of the expensive wage-earners. A few seasons of consolidation in Div 2 will do us no harm at all. I admit we don't want to get much worse but this ain't 1997 any more.

 

[marvin]

26 Aston Villa (10-PR) 9 306396 42573 34044 42719 79.6%

hahahahahahahahaha

 

[berkshire seagull]

Err, yeah. When Falmer's built.

Yeah if and by then we will be in debt with low crowds at the withdean and back to square one.