thony
Active member
...and I bet you were ticked off by people using phrases like "I would imagine" (as opposed to asking someone who knows or researching to find out the facts).
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New season ticket points ?
- Thread starter Lychpole
- Start date
...and I bet you were ticked off by people using phrases like "I would imagine" (as opposed to asking someone who knows or researching to find out the facts).
...and I bet you were ticked off by people using phrases like "I would imagine" (as opposed to asking someone who knows or researching to find out the facts).
But it doesn't make any sense at all and is not how any chip and pin card works.
AMEXican Wave
AMEX Ruffian
- Sep 21, 2010
- 1,226
...and I bet you were ticked off by people using phrases like "I would imagine" (as opposed to asking someone who knows or researching to find out the facts).
You have to use the phrase 'I would imagine' otherwise you get absolutely slaughtered for 'presenting OPINION as FACT'
thony
Active member
It may not be how CHIP-AND-PIN credit cards work, but it is how SMART CARDS work. Take the Brighton Buses smart card - when I order new tickets online, the details need to be sent to the buses overnight so that when I use my card on the bus in the morning it "loads" those tickets onto the chip and the reader will then show the new number of tickets on the card. The Brighton Buses website points out that you need to allow a few extra seconds at the reader for those new tickets to be loaded onto the card.
btw, anyone else work in IT and worked on chip-enabled cards?
It was interesting when I worked for American Express (many years ago) to find that they forewent much of the originally-intended chip functionality for the sake of just getting a chip-enabled product out there in the marketplace purely for the prestige of it - but in actual fact the only added functionality the chip gave at that point was that it only needed to contact Amex for authorisation on every fourth transaction (subject to transaction amount limits).
Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
Well if that is what happens then I stand corrected, however, seeing the time it takes for the card to need to be in contact with the reader when you buy a pie and a pint I cannot believe that an upload could take place in the very brief time the card is swiped on the turnstile. especially when 50 odd supporters are entering the stadium at the same time.
thony
Active member
Details of outstanding updates may well already be downloaded to all the turnstiles. So, assuming that and assuming that the initial fixture list is pre-loaded to the card:
in most cases, I would expect the turnstile to immediately recognise that there is no update required for this card and beep you straight through.
If there have been a couple of rearranged matches, or you have bought extra tickets online, the turnstile would have those updates ready for you, so should only take a second or two to upload them to your card and create a transaction to tell the central computer that these have now reached your card. (That transaction may be sent immediately, or may wait till after the match - sending it immediately may slow down your transaction slightly.)
If you are an existing STH starting a new season, I would expect the turnstile to need to upload the WHOLE fixture list for the season as you pass through. This may take some time, perhaps causing a delay of several seconds.
As for the pie-and-pint delays - is that using your card's cashback? If so, that would be a two-way transaction, something along the lines of:
* Check whether there's any further cashback entitlement due (perhaps pre-loaded at the till - if not, contacting the central computer will slow it down) and upload if needed;
* Check whether your card has any cashback on it, and whether it is sufficient for the transaction;
* Calculate balance to be paid if insufficient cashback;
* Confirm the sale;
* Adjust the cashback balance on the card;
* Report the transaction back to the central system.
This could take quite a lot longer that the turnstile process.
(Note that I'm NOT saying that this IS what happens at the till, just my educated guess at a likely solution.)
I will be interested to see what experiences I have with my smart-card, and will be ready to make suggestions to the club's IT suppliers if I think it doesn't seem as efficient as I'd expect.
I think you should calm down a bit tbh, I don't think there have been many (if any) complaints on here about smart cards "not being efficient", other than teething problems with 18500 new users last season.
Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
Every time I passed through the turnstiles last season I waved my card above the reader and it let me in instantly, there was no contact or delay.
Every time I purchased goods from a till (either in the shop or at the food kiosk) with cash already loaded onto my card there was a delay. The till staff in the shop stopped me taking my card off too early one time because I was too keen.
You are therefore saying that it will take something like 10,000 times longer to process a transaction at the till than it would to download extra stuff onto the card at the turnstile, especially when there is little or no contact with the reader.
If the fixtures will all be loaded for existing STH at there first entry in the new season we had better get there early otherwise many will miss the game completely.
Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews
Remainer
probably not, but you can sleep safe in the knowledge that those that didn't go will be eternally greatful to real fans like your self, If I see you I'll buy you a pint, What If we went to Gillingham?, The Goldstone? the 1910 Charity Shield?, let's move on shall we?
father_and_son
Well-known member
Any system where the card stores anything other than its unique identifier is massively insecure...
You certainly wouldn't store cashback details on the card, because if you could read the card at home, use it, read it again, work out what was different and effectively hack the card so you could add unlimited amounts of cashback onto the card yourself!
Also, you wouldn't store the data locally (in a turnstile or a till) because, then you could use your smartcard more than once for the same thing (two people getting in the ground on one card, or cashing in the credit twice). Only a central server would ensure uniqueness.
The card tells the turnstile who it is, the turnstile will talk to a central server, checking that your unique ID is valid and action it.
When you use the card at a till, the same thing will happen. The till will talk to a central server to ensure there is credit available or to tell the server to add credit. This way, only by hacking the central server could you create cashback from nowhere.
This is how cards like oyster and door passes, etc work.
A server linked to hundreds (rather than thousands) of turnstiles, hundreds tills and performing look ups against stored details of tens of thousands of cards would be very small. A database for this, by computing standards, tiny and the response times would be such that you'd need nothing bigger than a decent home PC to get sub-second response times.
Anyone building a system like the one described in some of the previous posts deserve to be robbed blind by people adding their own cashback!!
You certainly wouldn't store cashback details on the card, because if you could read the card at home, use it, read it again, work out what was different and effectively hack the card so you could add unlimited amounts of cashback onto the card yourself!
Also, you wouldn't store the data locally (in a turnstile or a till) because, then you could use your smartcard more than once for the same thing (two people getting in the ground on one card, or cashing in the credit twice). Only a central server would ensure uniqueness.
The card tells the turnstile who it is, the turnstile will talk to a central server, checking that your unique ID is valid and action it.
When you use the card at a till, the same thing will happen. The till will talk to a central server to ensure there is credit available or to tell the server to add credit. This way, only by hacking the central server could you create cashback from nowhere.
This is how cards like oyster and door passes, etc work.
A server linked to hundreds (rather than thousands) of turnstiles, hundreds tills and performing look ups against stored details of tens of thousands of cards would be very small. A database for this, by computing standards, tiny and the response times would be such that you'd need nothing bigger than a decent home PC to get sub-second response times.
Anyone building a system like the one described in some of the previous posts deserve to be robbed blind by people adding their own cashback!!
Plastic-Fantastic
Member
thony
Active member
Anyone working in IT who doesn't know about encryption deserves to be sacked. A smartcard CANNOT just be read and written to like a memory card.
Similarly, anyone building a system that uses an expensive smartcard to store just an ID when a magstripe would do - well, perhaps they should pay the added cost of all the smartcards out of their own pockets.
thony
Active member
Looks like you're right about the print run being done once - I've just been down to the ticket office, and they say that STs won't be sent out till mid-to-late July once they can send them all out together.
Hi,
I bought a season ticket back in April for a seat in the north stand
I know 1,000 points are awarded for the STH....last year there was additional points for STH of the previous season... that may also be the case for this years (i.e. 1,000 STH; 1,250 for STH if repeat STH) The club must expect some critisim of this scheme again this year and next as the STH membership increases........I went to most home and away games last year and found that some games I still had to wait for the 1901 members to have first pickings......as the 8,000 MORE STH start to take the choice to attend key away and cup games many of us will start to be disappointed!
The smart card cash loading worked ok for me mostly last year except twice when I loaded on a Saturday morning and the credit did not register at the bar counter, and once when the credit 'disappeared' completely by the tech guys sorted that promptly once notified. (keep you confirmation emails)