most of you will have heard of this today [School choices]

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

If that were the case, there wouldn't be too many complaints. But in a nutshell, they've split Brighton up into several catchment areas and assigned one school per catchment area.

For the posh area around Preston Park and the Labour voters of Hanover, they've assigned two schools: DS and Varndean and instigated a lottery system so, if you don't get in the first, then you'll get in the second.

The whole process has been designed to prevent schools getting a mix of pupils. So, the middle class schools will become more middle class and the lower performings schools will draw their intake from the estates.

Ah, o.k. So how are schools currently assigned students?

 

[Man of Harveys]

Are the bad schools really that bad for every pupil who goes there? I'm just thinking that, when I was at Longhill, there was a lot of streaming going on. Presumably kids who receive good motivation and help from home can still be catered for whereever they go, something which stats and league tables might not reflect? I dunno.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Personally, I'd rather that the contributions that the church currently makes to schools came from the exchequer - other than actual teaching about it, religion should have no vested interest in education, in an ideal world - polluting young minds with all that crap.

Of course, I may be wrong but I believe we're ALL funding the C of E, just by paying taxes...and, unlike in Germany, you can't opt out of the "church tax" here.

I'm sure you would, but that was my previous point. The extra money isn't there, so you should be grateful that somebody else is contributing. I really think you have the wrong idea about these schools by the way. Like I've said, I'm not Catholic myself, and a lot of what the church stands for rankles with me too, but I go into their school, and it is just a well run, small junior school, that is doing as well as it can for the children there.

They don't follow a different curriculum. In RE they are taught about Islam and other religions, just as they would be in any other school. About th only difference is that about twice a term the priest says a mass in assembly, and he sits at the front for the school nativity play.

Out of interest, do you enjoy your kids christmas play, or do you protest outside?

 

[tedebear]

No, it's that DS and Varndean tend to be oversubscribed and the others aren't. As everyone and his dog wants to go to these, they've limited the catchment area to the posh places.

and the council can't see fit to improve the schools that are not in the posh areas? (wouldn't that make sense?)

I don't see the problem with making kids go to their local school. But I do see a problem if that local school is underperforming due to lack of funding/assistance from Education bodies.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

When I went to Varndean (I left ten years ago) it was a mix of kids from the posh Preston Park/Surrenden area, the posh-ish bits either side of Ditchling Road (ie me) and the less posh (but by no means unpleasant) Hollingdean area.

Is it now going to be invaded by the tie-dyed, lentil-wearing, sandal-eating offspring of Hanoverians, with names like Isabella and Tofu?

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Myself and my three siblings all went to Hove Park, right through to 6th Form.

Its 15 years ago that the last off us left, so I am clearly out of date, but we all got on well there. The teaching was fine, discipline was very good. We beat Blatch hands down at every sport too!

Blatch has an incerasingly good reputation. They have a brilliant Music and performing arts department. They were always considered strong in sciences. Our family home back then, was in Frant Road, literally the house next to the Blatch gates, so we had some knowledge of both schools. Discipline did not, in those days, seem to be all that great.

PS. I'm sure you'll get much better advice from people who went to the schools in the last decade!

By the way Hove Born and Bred went to HP, and he was set up well enough to earn gazzillions. I concede that you may not aspire for your children to end up like him though!

Both my neice and nephew left a couple of yaers ago ( Blatch) and they both went to Uni afterwards ( Jesus Colledge cambridge and Nottingham) Both came out with excellent GCSE and A levels and good degrees ( First with honours and First) ....my other neice has just finished Blatch and loved it ( although she wished she had gone to Basvic)..

A couple of friends kids go to Hove Park and have some issues with the teaching.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

My dad's a teacher at Hove Park. It seems a fairly good school, but the head, by all accounts, is a bit of a tit. He's saved a lot of money by hiring a workforce of younger, cheaper, less experienced staff. Dad is one of the few teachers over 50 there.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

This business about steaming really makes my wife laugh.

We are told that streaming and selection does not exist....of course it does....Reception kids are assessed the moment they come through the door and every few weeks.

She recons within two 2 weeks you can broadly tell which kids come from which background, who is going to do well throughout their schooling and who isnt...and in some cases which boys like playing with the girls, and those who like playing WITH the girls, if you get my drift

 

[Publius Ovidius]

My dad's a teacher at Hove Park. It seems a fairly good school, but the head, by all accounts, is a bit of a tit. He's saved a lot of money by hiring a workforce of younger, cheaper, less experienced staff. Dad is one of the few teachers over 50 there.

Yes that has been brought up in conversation!!

 

[Man of Harveys]

and the council can't see fit to improve the schools that are not in the posh areas? (wouldn't that make sense?)

Exactly - just make the crap schools better, or, if there are many kids there who are from backgrounds which place less emphasis on education, at least cater for those that are bright and want to get on.

Maybe you need to have experienced an education system where you can just take it for granted that the state will provide a decent, well-funded education across the board to realise how strange (and class-related) this aspirational/choice stuff sounds. I find it really weird that it's supposedly so clear-cut which schools are good and bad.

Of course, I'd say this dreadful and harmful constant chopping and changing of state education policy in the UK is a very clear and direct legacy of having a ruling class - of either political party - which doesn't actually make use of the state education system itself. But that's another matter.

 

[Brovion]

Have you been able to take anyone to task about these catchment areas then?

Yes and it's a waste of time. My son was in exactly the same position. He was at Balfour Infants, didn't get a place at Balfour Juniors and had to go to Downs (Ditching Road). All his friends went to Balfour Juniors and he was devastated. We went through the appeals procedure (even getting letters of support from our MP) but it was a waste of time. He spent two unhappy terms at Downs (which actually isn't a bad school) when he was forever in the medical room with 'headaches'. In the meantime we were ringing up the council almost other day, certainly once a week wanting to know when there would be a vacancy (people obviously move out of the area and leave the school). Eventually they said there was a vacancy but he had to move THAT DAY otherwise it would go - so he started the day at Downs and finished at Balfour!

When the time came to go to secondary school we only put Stringer on the form. I wrote a letter saying he was going to Stringer or he wasn't going at all - let soneone else get dinged out this time. He got in.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Exactly - just make the crap schools better, or, if there are many kids there who are from backgrounds which place less emphasis on education, at least cater for those that are bright and want to get on.

Maybe you need to have experienced an education system where you can just take it for granted that the state will provide a decent, well-funded education across the board to realise how strange (and class-related) this aspirational/choice stuff sounds. I find it really weird that it's supposedly so clear-cut which schools are good and bad.

Of course, I'd say this dreadful and harmful constant chopping and changing of state education policy in the UK is a very clear and direct legacy of having a ruling class - of either political party - which doesn't actually make use of the state education system itself. But that's another matter.

One other issue that certainly affects people in the North, the Midlands and Wales, is that with the disappearance of out traditional heavy industry - Mining, Steelworking, ship building etc etc, this has put a bigger responsibility on schools. In the past, people who were not necessarily educationally gifted went into these industries, nowadays with the expectation of Government that all kids get into higher education and universities, it is up to the schools to educate these kids who may not be capable of some of the qualifications required.

 

[tedebear]

Exactly - just make the crap schools better, or, if there are many kids there who are from backgrounds which place less emphasis on education, at least cater for those that are bright and want to get on.

Maybe you need to have experienced an education system where you can just take it for granted that the state will provide a decent, well-funded education across the board to realise how strange (and class-related) this aspirational/choice stuff sounds. I find it really weird that it's supposedly so clear-cut which schools are good and bad.

Of course, I'd say this dreadful and harmful constant chopping and changing of state education policy in the UK is a very clear and direct legacy of having a ruling class - of either political party - which doesn't actually make use of the state education system itself. But that's another matter.

Maybe I'm tainted by my own schools experience in Australia, I personally find all these problems here unbelieveable...Nearly to the point of saying when Arthur is of school age, we'll go back to Australia...

 

[Man of Harveys]

Out of interest, do you enjoy your kids christmas play, or do you protest outside?

:waits for knock on door from bloke from CSA:
:hides spiderman outfit:
I have yet (knowingly) to sire offspring...

 

[rool]

Maybe I'm tainted by my own schools experience in Australia, I personally find all these problems here unbelieveable...Nearly to the point of saying when Arthur is of school age, we'll go back to Australia...

`

I know it's a long way from perfect but this was one of the reasons for moving to Ireland. The only downside is the amount of religion that takes up the school day/year but when in rome...

 

[m20gull]

One other issue that certainly affects people in the North, the Midlands and Wales, is that with the disappearance of out traditional heavy industry - Mining, Steelworking, ship building etc etc, this has put a bigger responsibility on schools. In the past, people who were not necessarily educationally gifted went into these industries, nowadays with the expectation of Government that all kids get into higher education and universities, it is up to the schools to educate these kids who may not be capable of some of the qualifications required.

Don't think it's just a Northern thing. Here in Kent, less than 100 years ago, 37% (according to an article in the local paper) worked in agriculture.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Of course, I'd say this dreadful and harmful constant chopping and changing of state education policy in the UK is a very clear and direct legacy of having a ruling class - of either political party - which doesn't actually make use of the state education system itself. But that's another matter.

That is the matter.

 

[Gwylan]

Are the bad schools really that bad for every pupil who goes there? I'm just thinking that, when I was at Longhill, there was a lot of streaming going on. Presumably kids who receive good motivation and help from home can still be catered for whereever they go, something which stats and league tables might not reflect? I dunno.

I've just been talking to Mrs Gwylan about this: to hear some of the parents carry on, you'd think that Patcham was Dotheboys Hall and that Varndean was Plato's Academy. In fact, there's not that much difference between the schools - perception is everything.

I'm not really hung up on this idea of 'good' or 'bad' schools anyway. If a child is brighto, has motivated parents who support him or her at school, that child will do well whatever school he or she goes to. If the parents couldn't give a toss or the child is unmotivated, then he/she could go to Eton and still be lacking in qualifications.

I'm certainly not going to create a fuss when it comes to schooling my children. None of the schools in B&H are so bad that parents should be concerned about the quality that they're getting.

I do think that the councillors have behaved appallingly over this but angry at the abuse of process rather than the issue of education per se.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

It was always cyclical in Kent though wasnt it...ie migrating workers to pick the crops and fruit

 

[hans kraay fan club]

:waits for knock on door from bloke from CSA:
:hides spiderman outfit:
I have yet (knowingly) to sire offspring...

Sorry MoH, I never read WHO has posted something, until I have actally read the post. I replied to your response assume it was a continuation of my little discussion with afters!