Moral Dilemma

[Spicy]

The barber was expressing opinions often held by members of the older generation. I have voted "No, do nothing" because it would be wrong for you to want to cause this man difficulties just because of his views - we do not live in a police state where no one is allowed to express an opinion, and from what you say more or less everyone in the shop agreed with his opinion. A lot of the views expressed by older people are due to the changes they have seen in the country over a period of time. Asylum seekers coming to this country at one time were around 100,000 people a year, and still numbered around 70,000 in 2001. This number is in addition to all those people who come here to work, to study, illegally. The UK is not a free for all and as someone said we are an island so have finite resources of education, hospitals, dentists, doctors, etc.

If immigrants contribute to the country's wealth and do not just come here for a free ride, then I welcome them. If they come to scounge, they should be kicked out. This would happen in any country in the world surely?

 

[Gully]

I suppose I was just trying to play devils advocate Spicy, and as you correctly state, everyone is perfectly entitled to their own viewpoint no matter how abhorrent that may appear to be.

I can proudly say that I am descended from an immigrant, my mum having moved here the year before my birth to marry my dad (not an arranged marriage you must understand as they met whilst she was here on holiday from Ireland). I too welcome people who have the gumption to get up off their proverbial and move to another country to try and make a better life for themselves and their family, surely that is just a natural instinct.

 

[Mr C]

Your barber was certainly right about one thing though - there will be civil unrest at some point in the next few years. This will be mainly due to the migration debate being stifled by the PC bridage (or alternatively: being called a racist because you express an opinion against illegal immigrants).

 

[Spicy]

A politican called Enoch Powell wrote in the late 1960s that the streets would run with blood due to the rising immigration problem. He is dead now but to a certain extent may well have been right - there were riots in Brixton, Oldham, Manchester, etc. Such difficulties appear to have abated, however, over recent years. Where immigrants bring crime, are here for what they can get, etc, the indigenous population (whatever ethnic background they are from) will feel uneasy and expect action by the Government.

 

[London Irish]

Powell was wrong. Immigration has been a big success story in Britain and immigrants have integrated here almost better than any where else in the world. Our racial problems are very minor compared to other parts of Europe. Of course we have rightwing politicians and morally bankrupt tabloid newspapers who will whip up immigrant scare stories, exploit insecurity and ignorance, and it's sad that many people believe their lies about immigration being out of control. Of course some immigrants will commit crime, English people don't? So that's reason enough to smear every immigrant as a would-be criminal?

It's ironic when you consider how many of the best Albion players over the years were 1G or 2G immigrants, imagine if the racial purists had got their way, none of those great Irish players who were the backbone of the team in the 1980s, no Zamora, no Leon Knight. And how many of us who post on NSC have no English antecedants?

Sport remains the great symbol of a succesful multicultural Britain and the Albion have played their part in that.

And SullyuptheWing, I love the fact that your username venerates a Welshman with Irish blood.

 

[berkshire seagull]

I thought thats why we went on holidays for to taste a bit of foreign tradition and binge away.

Best make it the sun to be the only reason now as there all here

 

[smudge]

I fancy Oz myself as living here feels like a slog. Transport system shite, stealth taxing up the ying-yang. A welfare state that hands out easy pickings to foreigners, (you know it's true), our old people left to scratch around on a meagre pension.
Right, I'm off!
Mind you I wouldn't half miss the Albion!

 

[Mr C]

A politican called Enoch Powell wrote in the late 1960s that the streets would run with blood due to the rising immigration problem. He is dead now but to a certain extent may well have been right - there were riots in Brixton, Oldham, Manchester, etc. Such difficulties appear to have abated, however, over recent years. Where immigrants bring crime, are here for what they can get, etc, the indigenous population (whatever ethnic background they are from) will feel uneasy and expect action by the Government.

Well put. Ah, but you're not allowed to use his name though Spicy - you're a racist now

 

[berkshire seagull]

Christ we must have so many empty propertys in this country mmmmm.
25% of this country is built on,so also we here we are 2-300,000 homes short yet let people flock in so i can see a massive massive problem ahead.Face it at this rate we will have 50% of this country built on and thats not good is it.

Just not thinking long term are they and morgages are going further out of reach for many now,so its all a shambles.

 

[Spicy]

Well put. Ah, but you're not allowed to use his name though Spicy - you're a racist now

I could never be described as a racist, Mr C, especially since I have mates of all races. In addition, I work in a multi cultural office and have excellent working relationships with everyone.

I didn't actually say that only immigrants cause crimes, as London Irish suggests, and I certainly do not consider all immigrants as would be criminals.

Immigration to this country needs to be properly managed, however, and those who have no right to be here sent home. Our health and education services are already overstretched and are at breaking point in some areas. Managed migration needs to have correct controls and as I made clear previously its the scroungers I object to.

 

[ziggy]

You asked that in the wrong place I'm afraid. There are too many lemmimngs on this site who have no appreciation that this country is built on migration. Let the poisonous wanker f*** off to Australia then, maybe maybe he could take Sully and Berkshire with him!

 

[ziggy]

I could never be described as a racist, Mr C, especially since I have mates of all races. In addition, I work in a multi cultural office and have excellent working relationships with everyone.

I didn't actually say that only immigrants cause crimes, as London Irish suggests, and I certainly do not consider all immigrants as would be criminals.

Immigration to this country needs to be properly managed, however, and those who have no right to be here sent home. Our health and education services are already overstretched and are at breaking point in some areas. Managed migration needs to have correct controls and as I made clear previously its the scroungers I object to.

Fair point but................................. our health service is being very well staffed by many immigrants and I for one can't wait for the dentists to come over from Hungary and see the price come down a little. Also I recently listened to a radio documentary where they sent a reporter to some of these countries, and it was no surprise to hear locals saying they love their countries and would not want to leave anyway.

 

[chip]

It should be remembered that Enoch Powel was responsible for the first real wave of immigration into this country - the Ugandan Indians. His main concern was that people should integrate and hold a similar set of values and aspirations or there would be trouble. He then made his rivers of blood speach - which most people have never read - when there was largley uncontrolled immigration from the former collonies and he was responding to his constituents concerns about harrassment and abuse.

He was the youngest ever professor in the commonwealth and the youngest brigadeer in the (Indian) Army. Read what he had to say about partition of India to understand his views on rapid and forced mass migration. I don't believe he was a racist - merely a man of a different time who spoke as he saw things not for spin. However, he wouldn't have minded being called one because of the absurd definition the PC crew use today.

If the barber pisses you off don't go there.

 

[Gerbil]

You asked that in the wrong place I'm afraid. There are too many lemmimngs on this site who have no appreciation that this country is built on migration. Let the poisonous wanker f*** off to Australia then, maybe maybe he could take Sully and Berkshire with him!

What a load of complete bollox!!

So he's a poisonous wanker for wanting to keep this country English is he?

This site makes me laugh with all the self opinionated drivel that is posted on here.
The bloke has obviously got issues with what is going on in this country at the moment like many others,me included,he may even be concerned for his kids when they get older,I know I am.
But just because he hasn't got the same PC views as some people on here he is subjected to abuse.
I know he probably doesn't even read all this but FFS give him a break.
We're all allowed on opinion on things in this country,as far as I know it doesn't have to be the same as everyone on here does it?

 

[sullyupthewing]

And SullyuptheWing, I love the fact that your username venerates a Welshman with Irish blood. [/B]

My grandmother was from Derry my father from Inverness and they came here legally they did not bunk in and milk the system.
And change your user name to Mr PC correct.

 

[Mr C]

I could never be described as a racist, Mr C, especially since I have mates of all races. In addition, I work in a multi cultural office and have excellent working relationships with everyone.

No I know, but in this crazy world we live in, it wouldn't surprise me. That's the problem.

 

[shingle]

Gully, for Christs sake mate get a grip of yourself, this is PC gone mad, as chip says if he pisses you off dont go there.

 

[London Irish]

My grandmother was from Derry my father from Inverness and they came here legally they did not bunk in and milk the system.
And change your user name to Mr PC correct.

Surely your grandmother came from Londonderry, Sully? I want to get your rightwing views consistent.

The "legal" process your grandmother went through was this: she got on a boat and pitched up "here" for work. That's it. Precisely the same opportunities you hypocritically want to deny to others. Like most Irish immigrants of the time, she would have come across plenty of ***** who would have complained about her stealing jobs and housing from local people. Then she had a kid who in turn produced one of those *****. Ironic, innit?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

If Australia is so bloody great then how come so many of them are over here ? They are the world champions are complaining (even though they have the nerve to call us whinging Poms) so your barber should be well at home.

It's a good question. The fact of the matter is the grass IS always greener on the other side. I absolutely love Australia & don't understand why anyone would choose to move to London from here. A lot of Ozzie friends can't believe I would move to Sydney from London though as there's so much going on.

Fact is, I moved to Oz for the weather & because UK was too hectic, polluted & busy. But the Ozzies move to the UK because it is so busy. Can't win. The lesson is, make the most of your surroundings. if you don't like it then move, but other problems do arise

 

[ziggy]

Lets get some facts right here people. Firstly Gerbil, your kids are not at risk from any forigners. Second, more people migrated out of this country last year than in. This country has been embracing different cultures successfully for millenia and has been constantly changing.We coped with christianity arriving. Imagine how the Pagan population would have handled that at the time. We've been invaded by French, Roman, Viking, and many others who have all changed us a little. After the 2nd world war we brought in millions of migrants without whome we would not be as rich as we are today. When they arrived children walked with no shoes on their feet and we were not even in the top 10 richest countries and now we are 4th.
We are an ever aging population, because we are thriving so well we are living longer. So we are going to need younger blood to work for us to pay our pensions. It has only recently been discovered that we have been getting the number of kids per person wrong for decades. Childbirth has been steadily declining since the 1950's we no longer each have 2.2 children per couple but in fact have only 1.7. At that rate with no immigrants we will all starve to death as pensioners.
And my last point is this, IT IS NOT YOUR COUNTRY, WE ARE ALL CITIZENS OF THE PLANET EARTH. YOU ARE ENGLISH/WELSH/BRITISH/IRISH WHATEVER BY ACCIDENT OF BIRTH.IT IS NOT AN ACHIEVEMENT. YOU COULD JUST AS EASILY HAVE BEEN BORN IN AFGHANISTAN, PERU, SOMALIA OR FRANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mexican: