It genuinely wouldn’t be the huge shock to me it might once have seemed for this to be a start of a “too dangerous, no election” putsch
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
Your view is a minority one because most decent humans don't want babies or innocent civilians starving to death. Sadly it appears it is what the IDF want.
World Food Programme says northern Gaza aid convoy blocked
The UN agency says Israeli forces turned back a convoy of 14 lorries taking aid to northern Gaza.
www.bbc.co.uk
nicko31
Well-known member
You can see how hard its going to be to get any settlement...
www.channel4.com
‘No sexual abuse of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails’, says former Knesset member
Benny Gantz may be part of Benjamin Netanyahu's war cabinet but he has provoked criticism from within the Israeli government for his visit to Washington DC.
www.channel4.com
Watched the interview with an Hamas leader based in Iran on Channel 4 news,what came across was peace talks are highly unlikely to be successful.He viewed the peace protests as a vindication of there actions and that the vast majority where on there side.It was on Monday at 7 worth a look for Hama's viewpoint.This isn't my endorsement of Hamas in case any one thinks so.
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,230
Good news for Gazan civilians on the brink of famine - another sign in recent days that the Biden administration is becoming increasingly unsympathetic to Netanyahu’s throttlehold on aid deliveries into Gaza. Combined with a notable change on the tone of the US when dealing with Netanyahu’s intransigence and the US (and now Uk too) now showing a desire to work with the Israeli opposition leader, things could improve for Gaza. I would like to say this is because the Biden Administration has had an humanitarian epiphany but it is far more likely that the withholding of Democratic support for Biden in the Primaries has had more to do with it. Maybe the Rochdale bi-election result might invigorate more support for a humanitarian ceasefire and getting more aid in from the UK Government too?
US to set up temporary port on Gaza coast for aid delivery
In his speech to Congress, President Biden will say a temporary pier will transport supplies from ships to the shore.
www.bbc.co.uk
Opposing oppression is a feminist act – don’t look away from Gaza | Arwa Mahdawi
Watching what is happening in Gaza feels almost too painful to bear sometimes, but it is important that none of us look away
www.theguardian.com
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,230
UPDATE
The UN Security Council finally has passed a resolution for a ceasefire (until the end of Ramadan) to get aid into Gaza - The UK supported it and while the US did not vote for it, it did not veto it either:
The Palestinian representative to the UN, Riyad Mansour, said:
"It has taken six months, over 100,000 Palestinians killed and maimed, two million displaced, and famine, for this council to finally demand an immediate ceasefire," Mansour tells the UN.
Meanwhile Israel has cancelled a delegation to White House visit and accused America from departing from a previously held policy position - ‘Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called it a "clear retreat" from the previous US position’
Meanwhile plans to move back Jewish settlement communities to Gaza once the Palestinians have “gone” is underway
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815
On a personal note, hearing from a Zionist Jewish relative in the States last night, I was really floored to hear them say that ‘Hamas initiated the attack to get this response from Israel so the World would then favour Gaza and hand Israel over to Gaza’. I wasn’t shocked that she said Hamas engineered Israel to attack Gaza (because many of us could surmise that ) but that she honestly believed the international community would ‘hand Israel over to Gaza’ - in other words there seems to be a very entrenched viewpoint in at least one Zionist in my family that Gaza/Palestine does not even exist as a separate entity and it all legitimately is a part of the land of Israel - that it is Palestinians who are the interlopers. How on earth do you unpack that kind of worldview and hold any hope for a peaceful settlement? If Israeli Jews don’t even accept that Israel is an Occupier of the Palestinian territories and the settlements go back into Gaza described in the BBC article above?
The UN Security Council finally has passed a resolution for a ceasefire (until the end of Ramadan) to get aid into Gaza - The UK supported it and while the US did not vote for it, it did not veto it either:
The Palestinian representative to the UN, Riyad Mansour, said:
"It has taken six months, over 100,000 Palestinians killed and maimed, two million displaced, and famine, for this council to finally demand an immediate ceasefire," Mansour tells the UN.
Meanwhile Israel has cancelled a delegation to White House visit and accused America from departing from a previously held policy position - ‘Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called it a "clear retreat" from the previous US position’
Meanwhile plans to move back Jewish settlement communities to Gaza once the Palestinians have “gone” is underway
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815
On a personal note, hearing from a Zionist Jewish relative in the States last night, I was really floored to hear them say that ‘Hamas initiated the attack to get this response from Israel so the World would then favour Gaza and hand Israel over to Gaza’. I wasn’t shocked that she said Hamas engineered Israel to attack Gaza (because many of us could surmise that ) but that she honestly believed the international community would ‘hand Israel over to Gaza’ - in other words there seems to be a very entrenched viewpoint in at least one Zionist in my family that Gaza/Palestine does not even exist as a separate entity and it all legitimately is a part of the land of Israel - that it is Palestinians who are the interlopers. How on earth do you unpack that kind of worldview and hold any hope for a peaceful settlement? If Israeli Jews don’t even accept that Israel is an Occupier of the Palestinian territories and the settlements go back into Gaza described in the BBC article above?
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,421
It is genuinely good news. I'll add it to the 180+ concerning Israel.
The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel.
As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined.
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About time Israel are called out for what they are. The government are nothing but evilIt is genuinely good news. I'll add it to the 180+ concerning Israel.
The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel.
As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Guess which issue has generated the most vetoes in the UN Security Council? And guess which of the P5 exercised that veto? And guess over which issue that P5 exercised that veto?It is genuinely good news. I'll add it to the 180+ concerning Israel.
The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel.
As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined.
The problem is that Israel just ignore UN resolutions and always have. Yet they then complain the US doesn't veto the ceasefire resolution. Maybe, just maybe, if they adhered to international law ( ** cough ** illegal settlements ), laws on war and UN resolutions they might get a bit more sympathy. None coming from the WS household any more. Time to have a UN ENFORCED ceasefire and Israel's leaders done for war crimes.
fly high
Well-known member
Along with Hamas leaders.
More than happy for that to happen too BUT Hamas aren't a recognised state government and haven't signed up to things like the Geneva Convention which strictly speaking means they can't be prosecuted for war crimes or breaking international law. They could of course be prosecuted for murder but only by Israel and even then only the individuals involved.
Totally agree but there can be no one who posts on here can continue to believe Israel's leaders are acting anywhere near compliance of the engagement of war.
It's about time leaders here and abroad properly call them out for the murderers they are.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,230
That goes without saying so why does it keep needing to be said?
A ‘ceasefire’ in any conflict by definition is bilateral otherwise any laying down of weapons is a ‘surrender’. Ceasefire negotiations have continued throughout the war with either Israel or Hamas refusing to accept conditions put forward by the other.
The problem is this:
- Hamas leaders in Qatar participating in the ceasefire negotiations seem to have little control over the Hamas brigades in Gaza which are semi-autonomous groups and largely self-sustaining.
- Likewise the moderates in Netanyahu’s government have little control over the far right Religious Zionists in the government that are propping up Netanyahu’s premiership.
- The majority of Israeli citizens just want their hostages back and Netanyahu out.
- Gazan civilians want their lives back and the Israelis out of Gaza and to be free from the controlling oppression of the Hamas paramilitaries.
- Netanyahu’s Government wants the Palestinians out of Gaza (despite protestations to the contrary) and ’Israel’s‘ borders to include the Occupied territories.
- The West needs to keep Israel on side for strategic influence in the Middle East but wants Israel to stop killing Gazan civilians en masse and work for a two State Solution.
- Israel wants to keep the West on side for protection but wants to ignore their calls for a ceasefire and independent Palestine State in order to pursue their long term aim of removing Palestinians from Gaza.
Everyone involved in this war has different and conflicting agendas but the majority of the world and those on NSC just want the killing and human-engineered famine to stop - that is NOT a polarised debate unless you want or even readily accept as ‘justified collateral’, 10s of thousands of innocent civilians being killed or dying from starvation. As has been said many times, voicing horror and compassion for the people of Gaza is not mutually exclusive from utterly condemning Hamas for the atrocities carried out on 7/10. Both can be logically held as an humanitarian POV.
For some reason, it has been such a strong theme all through this thread of a few posters repeatedly accusing those highlighting the humanitarian crisis and genocidal nature of the war in Gaza of being anti-semitic or supporting Hamas or even trying to ‘crush’ debate - whatever that ‘debate is’. I honestly don’t know what the ‘opposing point of view’ the self-proclaimed ‘minority’ here is professing to hold - no one has actually ever spelt it out. If it is not just baiting argument for the love of argument then what is it that attracts so much animosity when people report what the Gazan population is suffering on NSC or when others march in support of independence - Islamophobia?
It’s a hot mess and always has been.
fly high
Well-known member
You obviously didn't bother reading exactly what I was replying to but hey ho. I read your long insightful posts but I really don't need a lecture tonight. Both sides are evil, both sides need to be see justice.
And now the extreme right wing dictatorship ie the Israeli State is arresting the relatives of the Hamas hostages for protesting that Israel is continuing to persecute its war ie indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinians rather than negotiate a ceasefire to facilitate the release of those hostages.
Hopefully, someone with a gun (I care not whether Israeli or Palestinian), will take out Netanyahu quicksticks and put a stop to this nightmare.
Hopefully, someone with a gun (I care not whether Israeli or Palestinian), will take out Netanyahu quicksticks and put a stop to this nightmare.
Israeli hostages’ relatives arrested at protest as Gaza talks break down
Family members and activists blocked a main road in Tel Aviv, demanding more be done to free them.
www.bbc.co.uk
Israeli troops withdraw from al-Shifa hospital, leaving piles of dead bodies
Two week siege of Gaza's largest medical complex ends in destruction of all buildings and hundreds of deaths
www.middleeasteye.net
The barbarity of the Israeli army in full view following withdrawal from Al Shifa hospital. Any politician that backed/supported Israel should live in shame until the day they pass.
aolstudios
Well-known member
Try posting a source that exists to promote anything other than Jew hateIsraeli troops withdraw from al-Shifa hospital, leaving piles of dead bodies
Two week siege of Gaza's largest medical complex ends in destruction of all buildings and hundreds of deaths
The barbarity of the Israeli army in full view following withdrawal from Al Shifa hospital. Any politician that backed/supported Israel should live in shame until the day they pass.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,230
Reports are that Netanyahu is becoming increasingly beleaguered and is living on borrowed time:
- 10s of thousands of Israelis took to the streets to protest over the weekend: against his conduct of the war; his corruption charges; against the extreme Religious zealots propping up his leadership; security failures and the increasing risk to Isreal in destabilising the ME; failure to negotiate a ceasefire to get the hostages released and his centralising reforms that were on the agenda before the war started - Israelis want him out. They want that to happen sooner rather later.
The Israeli people now may be the only route to reach a peaceful settlement and end the war - by doing what no UN Security Council or International Court or the US can do, remove Netanyahu from power.
“Mr Netanyahu has been a consistent opponent of a Palestinian state. He has contemptuously dismissed the US strategy of backing for Palestinian independence as part of a "grand bargain" to remake the Middle East.
His critics here say his strident rejection of President Joe Biden's plans for governance in Gaza after the war is a tool to secure the continued support of Israel's extreme right wing. One of the protesters outside the Knesset was David Agmon, a retired Brigadier General in the Israeli army. He ran the prime minister's office when Mr Netanyahu was first elected.
"It's the biggest crisis ever since 1948. I'll tell you something else. I was the first chief of staff for Netanyahu in 1996, so I know him, and after three months I decided to leave. Because I realised who he is - a danger to Israel.”
apnews.com
- 10s of thousands of Israelis took to the streets to protest over the weekend: against his conduct of the war; his corruption charges; against the extreme Religious zealots propping up his leadership; security failures and the increasing risk to Isreal in destabilising the ME; failure to negotiate a ceasefire to get the hostages released and his centralising reforms that were on the agenda before the war started - Israelis want him out. They want that to happen sooner rather later.
The Israeli people now may be the only route to reach a peaceful settlement and end the war - by doing what no UN Security Council or International Court or the US can do, remove Netanyahu from power.
Israel: Benjamin Netanyahu protests put political divides back on show
Large anti-government protests have brought Israel's deep political splits back to the surface.
www.bbc.co.uk
“Mr Netanyahu has been a consistent opponent of a Palestinian state. He has contemptuously dismissed the US strategy of backing for Palestinian independence as part of a "grand bargain" to remake the Middle East.
His critics here say his strident rejection of President Joe Biden's plans for governance in Gaza after the war is a tool to secure the continued support of Israel's extreme right wing. One of the protesters outside the Knesset was David Agmon, a retired Brigadier General in the Israeli army. He ran the prime minister's office when Mr Netanyahu was first elected.
"It's the biggest crisis ever since 1948. I'll tell you something else. I was the first chief of staff for Netanyahu in 1996, so I know him, and after three months I decided to leave. Because I realised who he is - a danger to Israel.”
Israelis stage largest protest since war began to increase pressure on Netanyahu
Hostages' families believe time is running out, and they are getting more vocal about their displeasure with Netanyahu.
apnews.com