[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ve heard Tories repeatedly saying the corruption is ‘priced in’ with Boris. It’s expected and forgiven because he got Brexit done. It’s also in plain sight because he is too stupid or arrogant to cover his tracks. His supporters simply don’t mind ‘bodies piled high’ gaffs or breaking the ministerial code because Boris says stuff like ‘Muslim women look like letterboxes’ and 'Watermelon smiles' and 'piccaninnies'. His supporters are scared to death about liberation groups gaining influence in this Country, in their eyes he is doing a fantastic job of snuffing out moves to introduce equity across many areas of life by championing simple equality, it’s a great tactic to thwart change and his supporters can see it. He speaks to a certain section of working people like no one has done since Thatcher. It’s cult of personality, they love him, they won’t be voting Labour whatever the policies are because it’s all about personality.

Yes, that's exactly how I see it.

That said, I still feel Boris has one more 'Boris caught shagging an intern while smoking a crack pipe and trading crypto on the dark web' catastrafiascocockjuggle in him.

Here's hoping he spaffs on the intern's décolletage, rather than in the country's face.

 

[zefarelly]

Yes, that's exactly how I see it.

That said, I still feel Boris has one more 'Boris caught shagging an intern while smoking a crack pipe and trading crypto on the dark web' catastrafiascocockjuggle in him.

Here's hoping he spaffs on the intern's décolletage, rather than in the country's face.

I'd rather he just crashed and burned when an ariel runway cable snapped, live on TV

I don't really watch TV, but I'd make a special exception for that.

The mans a ****ing liability and an emabarassment, even his family think he's a ****

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'd rather he just crashed and burned when an ariel runway cable snapped, live on TV

I don't really watch TV, but I'd make a special exception for that.

The mans a ****ing liability and an emabarassment, even his family think he's a ****

Indeed. I would trust him neither with my wallet nor my wife.

The problem is that plenty do, and the rest of us need to find a way of prising the scales from their eyes.

It won't be easy.

It may require video footage. Possibly dubbed from Latin and Greek into (Davy) propper English

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Have you thought about a part time job as an ostrich? Your ability to bury your head in the sand to ignore what is happening, quite openly, is staggering.

Ah well, I have been trying to explain the reason you lost but you don’t want to listen. I give up.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I would say that Labour is bereft of ideas.

What I would also say is that this government, despite evidence of deep corruption, has been successful in avoiding fall-out.

I think there are four reasons for this:

1) The successful mantra of 'what the public really care about'. Listen to interviews and you will find Johnson using it regularly. It is his way of diverting from questions over his party's integrity. The wallpaper question was predictably answered in this way. When he was asked about it I knew what his next statement would be.

2) Whenever Starmer does question, and many of his questions have been relevant, he is met with the same dismissive response. Most of the mainstream media have fallen behind this. The Daily Express is in overdrive. Starmer is like the boy in the HCA novel who shouts out that the emperor has no clothes on, only to be given a whack and told to shut up because what the people really want to see is the wider parade.

3) The whole European issue is now a baton of us against them. The clear failings of negotiations and short comings on the deal being represented as a victory. Our fisherman don't think so, but anyone who reads some sections of the media would think otherwise. Anyone who questions is treacherous.

4) The Covid bounce. All the public really want to hear is that life is returning to normal. What they don't want to hear, and it will be kept out the light as long as possible, is about dodgy government contracts, billions of pounds of wasted taxpayers money et al. A bit like Thatcher's Falklands victory in a conflict her government caused and, according to military leaders of the time, were damn close to losing had it not been for a few twists of good fortune.

As I've said before, and forecast in 2016, we are headed for endless and possibly increasingly right wing governance. It doesn't matter whether Starmer has a coherent opposition. Like Kinnock, he will not be allowed to get his message across in an objectively reported way.

I do think that Labour would have been better going on with left wing ideology (which was really centre left and some ideas were stolen by the Tories- again conveniently overlooked). It served well in 2017 and 2019 was a single issue election. Right now they are fighting on ground that the Tories hold with all sorts of support from wide and influential sectors of society.

That said, 57% of the electorate did not vote Tory at the last election. But with our system they only need 40%. I suspect, unless some great drama happens, they will be in government for the rest of this decade at a minimum.

Once again, your priorities and views are different from other people's and you don't understand their point of view.

For example, for many people, the UK did not cause the Falklands war. Maybe you think it's a simplistic view, but IMO and in many other peoples' view, the prime cause of the Falklands War was Argentina sending soldiers to invade the Falklands. I have no doubt that the UK made tactical errors, especially the withdrawal of Endurance, but I think you are in a small minority in thinking that was the cause of the war.

As for the waste of money in Covid contracts, there were only two options for the government - buy stuff as fast as possible ignoring normal protocols, which would inevitably waste money; or buy stuff through normal channels and procedures and make do without it for perhaps three months' lead time. Obviously there was waste. We all know that was inevitable. As for corruption, there may or may not have been some or lots - but when they come out with bilge like the Dyson contract, which has been totally discredited, then people get "corruption fatigue" and reach a stage of "here they go again".

For corruption stories, they need to find an actual, major corruption and run with it. Just doing deals with people you know, when people provided goods as per contract, doesn't count as serious.

 

[GT49er]

First class post. Won't go down well here on NSC!

You need to accept that Boris is the devil incarnate who personally slaughtered hundreds of nurses as soon as he realised he had a pandemic on his hands to give him the excuse - you'll make more friends on here that way.

OK, I exaggerate - but only slightly in a lot of cases I'm afraid.

 

[Eeyore]

Once again, your priorities and views are different from other people's and you don't understand their point of view.

For example, for many people, the UK did not cause the Falklands war. Maybe you think it's a simplistic view, but IMO and in many other peoples' view, the prime cause of the Falklands War was Argentina sending soldiers to invade the Falklands. I have no doubt that the UK made tactical errors, especially the withdrawal of Endurance, but I think you are in a small minority in thinking that was the cause of the war.

As for the waste of money in Covid contracts, there were only two options for the government - buy stuff as fast as possible ignoring normal protocols, which would inevitably waste money; or buy stuff through normal channels and procedures and make do without it for perhaps three months' lead time. Obviously there was waste. We all know that was inevitable. As for corruption, there may or may not have been some or lots - but when they come out with bilge like the Dyson contract, which has been totally discredited, then people get "corruption fatigue" and reach a stage of "here they go again".

For corruption stories, they need to find an actual, major corruption and run with it. Just doing deals with people you know, when people provided goods as per contract, doesn't count as serious.

Okay. I'll withdraw 'caused' and place in 'should have prevented'.

Tell me why you feel the Tories were elected in Hartlepool in, say, five short bullet points. I genuinely want to know.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Okay. I'll withdraw 'caused' and place in 'should have prevented'.

Tell me why you feel the Tories were elected in Hartlepool in, say, five short bullet points. I genuinely want to know.

Well, it's certainly to do with the loss of the "working class" vote, and there are a fair few reasons for that.

1. The electorate is changing. As more and more people are doing financially well, which they are no matter what Rowntree might say, they get away from the "we're all in it together against the bosses" mentality that was much stronger when the Unions held sway.

2. The Labour party shows every sign of caring more for the unemployed than the employed.

3. Voting Labour was a habit in the northern cities. Once it's broken, it doesn't heal itself.

4. Labour policy on Brexit was so far from the northern electorate's. A lot of northern voters (ie. me, and I dare say many more) feel about the EU that it's a rotten organisation, it doesn't let us do what is best for Britain, it's corrupt, it's nasty, we can do very well without. I don't think Brexit per se makes much difference now that it's over, just that having broken with Labour over Brexit, it is easier to break with it on other matters too.

5. Gender issues. Regardless of how Neanderthal people might think they are, the number of parents and grandparents in this part of the world who are happy that any boy who proclaims himself a girl can share their daughter's changing room - is very few. I don't know if this issue in itself would put many off, because it's a marginal issue with little practical effect, but it certainly is a reason for the waverers to not vote Labour.

Note that this is only in the smaller towns and cities so far. Not Manchester or Liverpool. Liverpool is as solid red as it ever was, so are the red parts of Manchester. But the places like Hartlepool, Burnley, Whitehaven, Doncaster, Mansfield, Blyth - twenty, thirty years ago they could never have imagined a Tory MP.

Just some thoughts. I'm sure (at this time of night!) there are obvious things I have missed.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The UK is turning upside down. Traditional northern towns voting Tory, and leafy Surrey, WSCC and Worthing voting for Labour councillors including a wife of a well known Albion fan.
Even Kent, who were down down the UKIP route before the rest of the country, has won a Labour seat.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Tell me why you feel the Tories were elected in Hartlepool in, say, five short bullet points. I genuinely want to know.

Brian Fantanas post on the previous page is exactly that. Written by someone who lives in the region.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Welcome to the (nearly) People's Republic of Worthing. The leader of the Tories on Worthing Council sent a warning message to his own lot, saying (in effect) that coastal communities are missing out on the Tory gravy train which only seems to stop at Red Wall constituencies, spewing out dosh to bribe their electorates. Perhaps the Blue Wall is getting cracks in it. Oh dear.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The UK is turning upside down. Traditional northern towns voting Tory, and leafy Surrey, WSCC and Worthing voting for Labour councillors including a wife of a well known Albion fan.
Even Kent, who were down down the UKIP route before the rest of the country, has won a Labour seat.

It’s interesting that Labour is being slaughtered for not appealing to their supposed core base where as these Tory losses are going under the radar a little, could they be the start of something very significant?

I think the Tories have taken for granted the ‘blue rinse brigade’ vote in traditionally affluent areas. Voters who have always gone conservative without question. Voters who were in some cases remain, in some cases one nation conservatives but in all cases, the older generation, educated and with values. Boris’ Jedi mind tricks certainly don’t work with these voters. They see the infidelity, the failure to protect care homes, the lying, the bullying, the corruption and they think it stinks. If Keir can position Labour centrally copying the only Labour Government in the last 40 years, there could be some interesting results in the next election.

 

[zefarelly]

The UK is turning upside down. Traditional northern towns voting Tory, and leafy Surrey, WSCC and Worthing voting for Labour councillors including a wife of a well known Albion fan.
Even Kent, who were down down the UKIP route before the rest of the country, has won a Labour seat.

Indeed, the tide is slowly turning.

Labour councillors in Worthing!

Interestingly in Shoreham, St MArys ( town centre) is Labour, and has been some years now, St Nicholas ( town centre again) has just voted for a green councillor, the first ever. the beach retains it's NF ( Neighbourhood Front) independant and most of the rest is tory, with a few labour there is a slow notable shift though.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Indeed, the tide is slowly turning.

Labour councillors in Worthing!

Interestingly in Shoreham, St MArys ( town centre) is Labour, and has been some years now, St Nicholas ( town centre again) has just voted for a green councillor, the first ever. the beach retains it's NF ( Neighbourhood Front) independant and most of the rest is tory, with a few labour there is a slow notable shift though.

Lewes voted Green. In fact, the Greens gained 4 seats on ESCC, and the LibDems did well too.

 

[Chicken Run]

The UK is turning upside down. Traditional northern towns voting Tory, and leafy Surrey, WSCC and Worthing voting for Labour councillors including a wife of a well known Albion fan.
Even Kent, who were down down the UKIP route before the rest of the country, has won a Labour seat.

All in all a fantastic four days for Labour….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It’s interesting that Labour is being slaughtered for not appealing to their supposed core base where as these Tory losses are going under the radar a little, could they be the start of something very significant?

I think the Tories have taken for granted the ‘blue rinse brigade’ vote in traditionally affluent areas. Voters who have always gone conservative without question. Voters who were in some cases remain, in some cases one nation conservatives but in all cases, the older generation, educated and with values. Boris’ Jedi mind tricks certainly don’t work with these voters. They see the infidelity, the failure to protect care homes, the lying, the bullying, the corruption and they think it stinks. If Keir can position Labour centrally copying the only Labour Government in the last 40 years, there could be some interesting results in the next election.

Fair enough but that suggests you see the future of Labour as a party of the well off, one that represents those who did well out of EU membership with easy travel to second homes in France, cheap au pairs, plumbers etc and good jobs with multinational companies. Nothing wrong with any of that but it’s not really the founding ideal of a party for the less privileged is it ?

 

[BBassic]

5. Gender issues. Regardless of how Neanderthal people might think they are, the number of parents and grandparents in this part of the world who are happy that any boy who proclaims himself a girl can share their daughter's changing room - is very few. I don't know if this issue in itself would put many off, because it's a marginal issue with little practical effect, but it certainly is a reason for the waverers to not vote Labour.

I find this interesting and I hope this won't come across as sneering because it's not my intention. But I don't think the example you've posted there can happen. At least not legally.

I'm no expert but the Equality Act 2010 added "gender reassignment" to the list of protections which I think does allow trans people to use the bathroom of the gender they define as. That won't include anybody under the age of 18 though because you can't undertake that process until you're legally an adult.

That of course doesn't mean it isn't happening nor does it mean that the fears people feel around this aren't genuine. And honestly, I'm a middle class bloke from Worthing so I've got no idea of the lives and minds of the people of Burnley or Hartlepool I don't understand some of the "I'm fully against it " stances around the more contentious social issues but that's not to say they're invalid.

 

[nicko31]

Chipping Norton set home to Dave and Sam goes Labour plus Tories lose 9 seats across Oxfordshire. Outside of Oxford it has always been a Tory county.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Police Commissioner's votes are counted today. It's not a post I agree with but I had to chuckle at the bare faced cheek of this bloke in Wiltshire.
They can't even get the story right as to why he's withdrawn/barred.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-57048309

 

[Hugo Rune]

Fair enough but that suggests you see the future of Labour as a party of the well off, one that represents those who did well out of EU membership with easy travel to second homes in France, cheap au pairs, plumbers etc and good jobs with multinational companies. Nothing wrong with any of that but it’s not really the founding ideal of a party for the less privileged is it ?

Interesting suggestion but I would prefer to see the Labour Party based on values rather than having a particular foot hold amongst of the perceived classes, I realise that is wishful thinking though. Labour have mistaken a lack people’s wealth for unconditional support, there are still thousands and thousands of working people supporting the party (just look at Wales) but those who have turned Tory are probably gone for good so like the Tories, they should concentrate on attracting a new voter demographic and look at what they can do for the church warden, the leader of the local WI or just Daily Mail readers in general. If they listen, they might be surprised at how repugnant those people find Johnson, they might also get some ideas about some very different policies that could see the generations most hit by Covid change their political identities for good.

The Conservatives have attracted very different voters by embracing populism and basic democratic values of supporting the majority. With Boris’ astonishing spending, you’d call it National Socialism if the description wasn’t tainted for eternity. Whatever they’ve done, it’s been a vote winner, Labour have to learn from that.