Withdean Wanderer
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Mandela
- Thread starter Withdean Wanderer
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Smashing the apartheid was quite an important feat and not just for South Africa. He is quite rightly revered and is a powerful symbol of world peace.
readingstockport
New member
27 years for a campaign that only turned remotely violent after his political party was banned and even then initially only targeted infrastructure not people and then coming out and being one of the most compasiotnate forgiving people in the world I think deserves some recognition.
You may think differently but that will say a lot more about you than about Madiba.
You may think differently but that will say a lot more about you than about Madiba.
Why not Bush? He removed a nasty dictator from power and is in the process of stopping the biggest heroin trade from Afghanistan flooding the west?
THATS A SYMBOL OF PEACE
steward 433
Back and better
Lets not forget he was a terrorist who led to the deaths or maiming of thousands 
Guerrilla activities
In 1961, Mandela became the leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated as Spear of the Nation, also abbreviated as MK), which he co-founded. He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid. Mandela also raised funds for MK abroad, and arranged for paramilitary training, visiting various African governments.
Fellow ANC member Wolfie Kadesh describes the bombing campaign led by Mandela: "When we knew that we going to start on December 16, 1961, to blast the symbolic places of apartheid, like pass offices, native magistrates courts, and things like that ... post offices and ... the government offices. But we were to do it in such a way that nobody would be hurt, nobody would get killed." [8] Mandela said of Wolfie: "His knowledge of warfare and his first hand battle experience were extremely helpful to me."[2]
Mandela explains the move to embark on armed struggle as a last resort, when increasing repression and violence from the state convinced him that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had achieved nothing and could not succeed.[9][2]
A few decades later, MK did wage a guerrilla war against the regime, especially during the 1980s, in which many civilians were killed. Mandela later admitted that the ANC, in its struggle against apartheid, also violated human rights, and has sharply criticised attempts by parts of his party to remove statements supporting this fact from the reports of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.[10]
Guerrilla activities
In 1961, Mandela became the leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated as Spear of the Nation, also abbreviated as MK), which he co-founded. He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid. Mandela also raised funds for MK abroad, and arranged for paramilitary training, visiting various African governments.
Fellow ANC member Wolfie Kadesh describes the bombing campaign led by Mandela: "When we knew that we going to start on December 16, 1961, to blast the symbolic places of apartheid, like pass offices, native magistrates courts, and things like that ... post offices and ... the government offices. But we were to do it in such a way that nobody would be hurt, nobody would get killed." [8] Mandela said of Wolfie: "His knowledge of warfare and his first hand battle experience were extremely helpful to me."[2]
Mandela explains the move to embark on armed struggle as a last resort, when increasing repression and violence from the state convinced him that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had achieved nothing and could not succeed.[9][2]
A few decades later, MK did wage a guerrilla war against the regime, especially during the 1980s, in which many civilians were killed. Mandela later admitted that the ANC, in its struggle against apartheid, also violated human rights, and has sharply criticised attempts by parts of his party to remove statements supporting this fact from the reports of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.[10]
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How is it a symbol of peace, when Iraq remains a highly dangerous and volatile place with thousands of deaths and remains occuppied by Western troops as the nation could/would be on the brink of civil war? Whilst it was good to remove someone like Saddam, can the mission be deemed a success?
It's the Islamic factions of Iraq who choose not to live in peace.If there wasn't no uprisings then there wouldn't be deaths.Can't blame western troops for suicide attacks,kidnappings,beheadings etc Paul.Our boys don't fire unless fired upon.
Meade's Ball
Well-known member
I am no fan of special occasions in general (watching royal marriages or beefeater marches or marathons limp my interest in a nanosecond), but i flicked over for about 4 minutes to ITV last night and was quite saddened by it all. Barely able to walk, almost completely white in hair and skin, the leafy autumnity of his being plucked free so an unflappable wooden statue leans still in the chill breezes of change. He needed to be guided to the podium and pushed to wave at a crowd of people he perhaps had no undertsanding of their gathering, with a wet-eyed Will Smith swaying in the background. He spoke of others wearing his political antlers and fighting on for equality, seemingly admitting his death was a week or so away, or a month or so already gone. Strange to see livings legends so ghostly, that there is an end to them individually, that their meaning's a past whisper or anthology of supposeds written by those guesstimatingly claiming to know. Glad he has lived so long despite the conditions he's suffered in and fought, and that he finally spoke in part of the brutality of Mugabe, a fellow fighter of white rule he'd not ordinarily speak against.
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But he is certainly not worthy of a pat on the back for bringing peace to the country!
I am not so sure about your last comment. There have been multiple cases of raids instigated by the Western troops.
Either way, I would hope that the Afghanistan and Iraq missions are resolved soon. We have lost far too many troops already and three of my friends are out there in various parts with the Royal Engineers.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,499
I guess one thing you do have to admire about Mandela is his apparent sense of forgiveness.
Given the years of incarceration at the hands of the apartheid regime, it would be entirely understandable if, having been released, he ended up bitter and twisted, and spending his remaining years a la Mugabe, railing against the white man at whatever cost.
Mind you, when you get the likes of Geri Halliwell and Joss Stone foisted upon you at every opportunity, you could imagine old Nelson looking back at his Robben Island days and thinking perhaps they weren't so bad after all...
Given the years of incarceration at the hands of the apartheid regime, it would be entirely understandable if, having been released, he ended up bitter and twisted, and spending his remaining years a la Mugabe, railing against the white man at whatever cost.
Mind you, when you get the likes of Geri Halliwell and Joss Stone foisted upon you at every opportunity, you could imagine old Nelson looking back at his Robben Island days and thinking perhaps they weren't so bad after all...
Zesh Rehman
New member
Mandela is a terrorist, and really should not be raved about so much.
Such insight from young people these days.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
Ok that is your opinion. What exactly would you have done in his place faced with the conditions the Black majority in South Africa suffered?
readingstockport
New member
Do you know many SAFA's? If you do how long have you known them for?
Just a interested enquiry as to be totally honest I suspect you know f*** all about what you are bullshitting about quite frankly.
How smart is/was Gerry Danvers.
Writing 'Free Nelson Mandela', I guess a fair whack of the royalities went to 'the cause'.
But since his release, I suppose he's trousered the rest of the cash.
Top work, fella.
Writing 'Free Nelson Mandela', I guess a fair whack of the royalities went to 'the cause'.
But since his release, I suppose he's trousered the rest of the cash.
Top work, fella.
readingstockport
New member
IIRC everything that the Specials AKA made fomr that track was and has always been donated to originally the anti-apratheid movement and since then it all goes to 46664
Thing is, some people actually believe there is more to life than simple greed.
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And some take things a little too seriously
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 71,896
'Our boys' got no right being there in the first place.
Bush and B.Liar are war criminals for ordering them out there to support the illegal and immoral invasion of a sovereign state.
readingstockport
New member
The usual highly incisive deconstruction of the problems in the middle east and what it's causes are.
Tell me albie, what is the history of Iraq as a nation state?
Zesh Rehman
New member
So your saying its ok to be a terrorist if its a good cause, so do you support al queda then? As im sure they think what they're doing is for a good cause