Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Kinky Gerbil]

So how long will it be before some "freedom fighter" gets in the news for ripping off the mask of someone who chooses to wear it on a train / bus / tube after the 19th? I give it three days maximum.

How long before some unofficial mask monitor screams in someones face who isnt wearing one?

 

[e77]

sure there are some protection but its minimal - less likely as you say. the argument was valid then as now. if you want to protect people, should mandate something that actually do something like 95-99%. if you're sitting opposite someone infectious (not sneezing) on a train the 60-75% protection of a non-standard mask is negligible over a 30-60 minute journey. proximity and time in proximity have far great effect. so why take a stand on protecting people on transport, but not be willing to do it properly?

In fairness if you are standing packed in a train next to each other they aren't so effective.

As you well know N95 filters cost money and actually need training to put them on properly to get a seal so it is impractical to use them on a mass scale. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it is of no benefit.

 

[dazzer6666]

My mask will be staying on for a while yet and given you wear a mask to protect others more so than to protect yourself I do hope that most people with good conscience and social responsibility will continue to wear them as the third wave continues to grow until a point where we are all fully vaccinated and fingers crossed cases are a long way down than where they are currently.

I'm happy to continue wearing them in close-confined and not well ventilated places (on the tube being a prime example) but will avoid such places as far as I can, but I'm not really worried about case numbers - in fact I'm expecting these to increase quite significantly after 19/7 for a few weeks until we reach the intersection where the vacc programme takes over more completely (in line with the calculated risk that is clearly being taken). The real key is the hospitalisation, ICU and death numbers - if they don't rapidly increase (whilst more are being hospitalised, the rate of increase is hugely below that seen relative to previous waves, and the National Director of the NHS has publicly said the NHS can cope) then the risk management strategy will be the right one. I think the extra month of caution we've had was a sensible move. For perspective, deaths are currently around 15/day, at the peak they were approx 1,500 (so 99% down if you like %ages), and there are less than 2,000 in hospital vs almost 40,000 at the peak (95% down).

 

[crodonilson]

I'm happy to continue wearing them in close-confined and not well ventilated places (on the tube being a prime example) but will avoid such places as far as I can, but I'm not really worried about case numbers - in fact I'm expecting these to increase quite significantly after 19/7 for a few weeks until we reach the intersection where the vacc programme takes over more completely (in line with the calculated risk that is clearly being taken). The real key is the hospitalisation, ICU and death numbers - if they don't rapidly increase (whilst more are being hospitalised, the rate of increase is hugely below that seen relative to previous waves, and the National Director of the NHS has publicly said the NHS can cope) then the risk management strategy will be the right one. I think the extra month of caution we've had was a sensible move. For perspective, deaths are currently around 15/day, at the peak they were approx 1,500 (so 99% down if you like %ages), and there are less than 2,000 in hospital vs almost 40,000 at the peak (95% down).

Lots of good news and the vaccines are doing a fine job but I don't think we can be totally confident in hospitalisations and death numbers until we are over this peak in terms of cases and they are still rapidly rising and that rise will only speed up if restrictions are lifted in two weeks time, we just don't know how high case rates may get. We could be far more confident if cases had started to plateau or even better decrease, how high will this peak be? The other isse I have with huge case numbers is if people are still expected to isolate this could take many doctors and nurses out of the front line as they are going to be highly likely to catch covid even if they have been double vaccinated, the amount of cases they will probably come into contact with, although one saving grace is I understand masks will be mandatory in all healthcare settings.

 

[The Clamp]

I’ll have to wear a mask for work for the foreseeable and on public transport. Anywhere else? Nope. Forget it. I can see why people on furlough who have been able to spend time with family and enjoy walks in the park and days on the beach etc instead of getting on a train twice a day would be reluctant flor the world to return to normal. Being paid to bobble around at home will be hard to give up. I get that.
But people who have been stuck in a garden-less flats on their own after being laid off work and struggling on benefit may be quite keen to get back to normal.
In my case, I’ve been working in a high risk environment all through and I am keen to return to normal life and take a holiday.

Tens of millions of us sacrificed 18 months of the prime of our lives to save the lives of old people and the vulnerable. Sorry, it’s time for them to sacrifice now and stay indoors if they’re worried.
For now, the pandemic is under control. The NHS has said they can handle this and the vaccinations work. It’s happening. It’s now or never.

 

[The Clamp]

Lots of good news and the vaccines are doing a fine job but I don't think we can be totally confident in hospitalisations and death numbers until we are over this peak in terms of cases and they are still rapidly rising and that rise will only speed up if restrictions are lifted in two weeks time, we just don't know how high case rates may get. We could be far more confident if cases had started to plateau or even better decrease, how high will this peak be? The other isse I have with huge case numbers is if people are still expected to isolate this could take many doctors and nurses out of the front line as they are going to be highly likely to catch covid even if they have been double vaccinated, the amount of cases they will probably come into contact with, although one saving grace is I understand masks will be mandatory in all healthcare settings.

They will not be highly likely to catch Covid. The vaccine works. It’s okay if you are worried, I get that. But don’t make stuff up please.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

As I have reduced immunity due to blood cancer the protection I have from the vaccinations will be less than for a healthy person and I may have none at all. I was reasonably confident travelling on the tube, eating out etc with some measures in place, like face masks on public transport, but with these removed and cases rising it looks like it will be effectively be back to shielding and doing much less outside the house than I do now until case rates drop substantially. For me 19 July will be the opposite of ‘Freedom' Day..

 

[dazzer6666]

Lots of good news and the vaccines are doing a fine job but I don't think we can be totally confident in hospitalisations and death numbers until we are over this peak in terms of cases and they are still rapidly rising and that rise will only speed up if restrictions are lifted in two weeks time, we just don't know how high case rates may get. We could be far more confident if cases had started to plateau or even better decrease, how high will this peak be? The other isse I have with huge case numbers is if people are still expected to isolate this could take many doctors and nurses out of the front line as they are going to be highly likely to catch covid even if they have been double vaccinated, the amount of cases they will probably come into contact with, although one saving grace is I understand masks will be mandatory in all healthcare settings.

They haven't been rapidly rising (or rising at all) for 5 days now - infection numbers have been more or less stable, and we still have another two weeks before Freedom Day. As I understand isolation is likely to be dispensed with for anyone double-jabbed (which includes the vast majority of NHS workers).

How does someone that has been double-jabbed become 'highly likely' to catch Covid Would be interesting to see where you've read this - please post link. Tks.

 

[e77]

Without wishing to make it all about me, Thameslink aren't running any direct trains from Littlehampton to London Bridge (and onwards to City Thameslink, etc.) at the moment. if they really do want a return to normal they need to start getting train services back to what they where.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Without wishing to make it all about me, Thameslink aren't running any direct trains from Littlehampton to London Bridge (and onwards to City Thameslink, etc.) at the moment. if they really do want a return to normal they need to start getting train services back to what they where.

I imagine there are a fair few others who’d like that…so definitely not just about you

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

So basically the Government is now going to risk the mutation of a vaccine-resistant variant entirely unnecessarily and either put us all back in hard lockdown or condemn thousands to death?

Marvellous.

Yep.

Standard Johnsonism.

The sooner his party ditch the clown the better.

 

[Fungus]

Have to say I rely for part of my understanding on lip reading ..some are quick to dismiss it as oh it’s just a mask..or we live in this country and we all just do it…glad they do because sod them

I imagine a lot of (hearing or non-hearing) people need to see a full face; I know my wife struggles without the visual clues that are hidden by masks.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Yep.

Standard Johnsonism.

The sooner his party ditch the clown the better.

The moment BJ said that ditching of all Covid restrictions was 'irreversible' was the moment BJ ditched lip service to Following The Science. It's clearly nonsense and the U-Turn will follow in due course

 

[dsr-burnley]

Without wishing to make it all about me, Thameslink aren't running any direct trains from Littlehampton to London Bridge (and onwards to City Thameslink, etc.) at the moment. if they really do want a return to normal they need to start getting train services back to what they where.

I don't know about Thameslink, but I believe London Underground haven't been training any drivers for the last 15 months, so with retirements and other departures there may be driver shortages for a while.

 

[LamieRobertson]

In fairness if you are standing packed in a train next to each other they aren't so effective.

As you well know N95 filters cost money and actually need training to put them on properly to get a seal so it is impractical to use them on a mass scale. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it is of no benefit.

Be interesting to see the club’s approach on masks when on a concourse ..assuming the rumours for July 19th are true ..i imagine a fair number of people will want to be very cautious

 

[e77]

Be interesting to see the club’s approach on masks when on a concourse ..assuming the rumours for July 19th are true ..i imagine a fair number of people will want to be very cautious

I presume the football authorities and clubs can start planning once the government have made the announcement. As it stands there are still warnings in place in Birmingham, Leicester and Liverpool so will away fans be allowed to travel there?

 

[The Clamp]

Masks will still be mandatory on public transport, venues, matches etc for at last another year. Loads of pubs will still stuck to table service etc.
It’s not going to change massively overnight.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I presume the football authorities and clubs can start planning once the government have made the announcement. As it stands there are still warnings in place in Birmingham, Leicester and Liverpool so will away fans be allowed to travel there?

Good question …must be a fair bit of uncertainty on that one ..a lot to unravel

 

[vegster]

So basically the Government is now going to risk the mutation of a vaccine-resistant variant entirely unnecessarily and either put us all back in hard lockdown or condemn thousands to death?

Marvellous.

Completely ditching the obligation to wear a mask on public transport and in areas where people mix and merge is extraordinary. This combined with Javid stating " We are going to have to learn to live with Covid like 'Flu " seems that Johnson has got his " herd Immunity " as he wanted originally. How many deaths is he responsible for and how many more must he have on his conscience before some level of humanity gets triggered in him ?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Completely ditching the obligation to wear a mask on public transport and in areas where people mix and merge is extraordinary. This combined with Javid stating " We are going to have to learn to live with Covid like 'Flu " seems that Johnson has got his " herd Immunity " as he wanted originally. How many deaths is he responsible for and how many more must he have on his conscience before some level of humanity gets triggered in him ?

I’m no fan of this government (I definitely no you aren’t Veggie) or any party for that matter but isn’t what Javid said as good as what Whitty said

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....earn-to-live-with-covid-in-similar-way-to-flu

The headline is slightly misleading ..but in that interview he did say manage like flu