Machiavelli
Well-known member
Wow, I just watched that, and now I'm wide awake. Thank you for helping me with my awakening
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Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter GingerBeerMan
- Start date
Wow, I just watched that, and now I'm wide awake. Thank you for helping me with my awakening
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Not only have you woken me up, you've now offered me the truth. What else do you have in store for us today?
Albion Dan
Banned
Wow, I just watched that, and now I'm wide awake. Thank you for helping me with my awakening
You're very welcome. Glad you finally got there.
RossyG
Well-known member
- Dec 20, 2014
- 2,630
Happening in Brighton and Oxford. But why did it take so long? They’ve been talking about it for ages.
Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52737169?__twitter_impression=true
Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52737169?__twitter_impression=true
Albion Dan
Banned
Doesn't fit Bill Gates/WHO narrative who are now clearly in control of most mass media outlets.
Albion Dan
Banned
Great to see Zuckerberg being taken to task by US congress over anti-vaccine censorship and looking incredibly uncomfortable as a result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I5BTCSXVWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I5BTCSXVWg
You misunderstand my analogy. Sumption wants no restrictions. The analogy is with a change in the law so there are no restrictions on drink driving. Of course there is a risk of being hit by a drunk driver, but the stats show the risks have reduced hugely by restriction (drink driving laws) and indeed education. Sumpion is sending the opposite message.
Of course I'm not advocating that everyone spends their lives wrapped in cotton wool. But I am not going out yet to mingle given the likes of you, intent on getting on with it. Presumably you are fit and young enough to imagine you can do a bit of Covid 'standin' on yer 'ed'. I cant.
It causes torsades de pointes. This could actually increase mortality. In fact a recent meta analysis suggests this to be the case:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v2
Unfortunately (in my view) it is typical that everyone wants to get on the bandwagon. There are currently around 300 trials of this drug worldwide. One 'positive' research paper from 2020 has been cited over 800 times. This is borderline insanity.
My prediction is the risks associated with use of the drug will outweigh benefits, but people will continue arguing the toss about it for months if not years.
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Billy Seagull
Bookie Basher
- Jul 5, 2003
- 1,441
The government made official changes in the data, yesterday I believe.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public
I plan to stay alive as long as possible. My analogy (not a comparison) is entirely appropriate. If you are young and fit enough to take a chance, and have no friends or family at risk who you care sufficiently about, just be honest. You're alright, Jack.....
This is not a libertarian issue. I have heard people defend all sorts on the grounds of liberty. It normally boils down to simple selfishness.
No, neither particularly fit and in my mid 50s, but I cycle for pleasure so that is a risky thing to do on the roads. I like a drink another risky thing for my health, I even have the occasional smoke very risky for my health...I am a service engineer and drive about 30,000 + miles a year in my job, I deal with heavy equipment and live high current 3 phase wiring...again those 2 are really risky for my well being.
On the scale of all those Covid 19 comes a long way down list of dangers to my life. As I would suggest is does to 99.9% of people under 70 who are up and about with no underlying problems.
If you are of feel you and your loved ones should take care and not go out fine but its not for me. ( and yes I spent 6 weeks at home being good, but now I am back at work, as is most manufacturing)
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Albion Dan
Banned
The drug itself is relatively harmless. My wife takes it already for Arthritis as do millions of others. Could even explain why she had zero symptoms when I had a serious case of Covid.
Albion Dan
Banned
Again I put your side of the argument down to an inability to see the much more disastrous impact of all aspects of health and destroyed standards of living from the recession that's coming and will get worse the longer lockdown prevails. What do you actually suggest if we still dont have a vaccine in a years time btw?
He's taking about someone who is asymptomatic but has at least five days of continuing to be asymptomatic while infectious. He's arguing that because everyone knows they are taking a risk and may be sat next to such a person, that makes it OK. That is claptrap.
- There will be lots of people who will think that if they are allowed to go to the theatre they will be safe. Even with little or no social distancing.
- Second, there is a big difference between not knowing that you are infectious and knowing that you are not infectious.
- If you are sat next to someone who is asymptomatic, they don't have to cough in your face to infect you.
Essentially an asymptomatic person 'who doesn't know anything' but is infectious is no more innocent, if they spread the virus, than your average bloke in the 1960s who knew they wouldn't crash their car when pissed because they 'know how to handle their drink'. 'Socially acceptable at the time' is an understandable excuse, but it isn't justifiable in the name of liberty.
Sumption is giving a sense of rightousness to people who just want to do what they want.
Until there is a vaccine we are at risk. I have agreed to drive an old fellah to London soon because he needs a heart operation. I'm not going to feel best pleased if I have to wade through a throng of idiots, swanning about and not social distancing, because they have been empowered to 'get back to normal' by the great libertarian.
Albion Dan
Banned
So you are proposing everyone hides for a year or maybe forever if no vaccine is found whilst the society we know burns in flames pushing us all into never ending poverty because a very very small amount of the population might die of a virus? Absurd. Again like Sumption said leaders need to make decisions of Statesmen and not bow to public opinion which has been fueled by media fear porn.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
Talk about throw the baby out with the bathwater. If only things were so black and white. Managing a situation is very different to shrugging and ignoring it.
The tricky (and important) thing is judging the point at which the lockdown causes more problems than it solves.
There will come a time when the effects of the lockdown - missed cancer referrals, poverty, suicides etc - claims more lives than a continued lockdown saves. The question is when that moment is, and acting appropriately - it's not the economy vs lives, its lives vs lives.
Evidently we are all at differing points on the scale - the two extremes being A> End the lockdown now/shouldn't have been a lockdown, to B> No end to lockdown until we have a vaccine (if we get one).
I don't know where I am, myself. Probably somewhere in the middle.
There will come a time when the effects of the lockdown - missed cancer referrals, poverty, suicides etc - claims more lives than a continued lockdown saves. The question is when that moment is, and acting appropriately - it's not the economy vs lives, its lives vs lives.
Evidently we are all at differing points on the scale - the two extremes being A> End the lockdown now/shouldn't have been a lockdown, to B> No end to lockdown until we have a vaccine (if we get one).
I don't know where I am, myself. Probably somewhere in the middle.
Albion Dan
Banned
We haven't ignored it unless I slept through the last 3 months. We have protected the NHS, always the plan, now we should start the process of bringing life back to normal. What do you think the result of the worst recession for 300 YEARS is going to look like? That's from 3 months of this. What do you think will be the long term scenario if this was allowed to carry on for another 3 months? Thankfully the government aren't prepared to find out but it astounds me how many people on here would like it to.