M5 crash and the firework display.

[Driver8]

so rather than just dismiss the fireworks as a red herring, they construct an elaborate explaination how fireworks can be blames? thats from the Times? sound more like conspiracy nutters.

actaully, not quite as bad, i've seen one proposal that it was the result of a satanic ritual by the background government, proved by some numerology mumbo, presumably to usher in new laws or distract us from other news events.

I can think of a certain poster who will probably support that second theory....

 

[ward is god]

I heard from people today who were at Taunton RFC and there wasn't a bonfire. I can understand that the smoke from the fireworks finale could have caused visibility problems but it was a nasty night with fog patches and heavy moisture in the air. Driving was difficult.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

This is an account of what happened from someone who was involved in the tragic M5 accident, at times very harrowing listening but he gives a good insight into the visibility problems from his point of view. I hope I would have shown the bravery and calmness that this gentleman displayed. The interview starts at 10:12 in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016vkqw/Stephen_Nolan_05_11_2011/

I heard that on the Nolan show on Saturday night and you are right,Tom Hamil gave an impressive interveiw.

 

[Barrow Boy]

I heard that on the Nolan show on Saturday night and you are right,Tom Hamil gave an impressive interveiw.

What I found interesting about his account of the visibility was that he was asked directly if he thought the blanket of white mist was due to smoke. He replied that he thought it wasn't as there was no smell of smoke present when he got out of his car, that only happened when the first lorry caught fire several minutes later.

 

[hitony]

Sadly some will want to lay the blame at the Rugby Club, I don't want to speculate but from a personal opinion I think it is purely down to the weather conditions, but you can't sue the weather can you!

I have (and I am sure many other NSC people have as well) driven along that stretch of the M5 many many times and the weather conditions can and have been very bad.

 

[Barrow Boy]

Sadly some will want to lay the blame at the Rugby Club, I don't want to speculate but from a personal opinion I think it is purely down to the weather conditions, but you can't sue the weather can you!

I have (and I am sure many other NSC people have as well) driven along that stretch of the M5 many many times and the weather conditions can and have been very bad.

Totally agree with you hitony, I have only encountered similar conditions once before several years ago on the A27 Shoreham flyover over the River Adur. I use this road frequently but this particular night the visibility went from reasonable to zero in a few seconds. I dropped my speed to about 10mph (put on my fogs & hazards) but still managed to miss the Shoreham turn-off junction! Very scary and spent the whole time expecting someone to drive into me.

 

[Seagull Steve]

It was a foggy evening down this way. I drove over the M5, a few miles further North, around 8:30 that night and the moors around where I live had patches of very thick fog. Hit similar at motorway speeds and you have to hope there's nothing in the way for you to hit.

I think that this is the reason for a lot of accidents. Some people do seem to drive in that way unfortunately. You see it every day. I was driving on the M6 a few years ago, and the weather conditions were appalling, and this Toyota Supra came past us at a very fast speed and sure enough further on down the road he lost it and ended up the embankment. Luckily no one else involved and he wasn't hurt.

 

[Spiros]

It's funny how the police seem to be looking to find any cause other than the fact that some drivers may actually have been driving too fast in the conditions. They seem to want to blame fog and fireworks rather than suggest that some of the victims may actually have been to blame for the accident. As someone has already mentioned above you should drive such that you can stop within the distance you can see - if you can't do that then slow down. However just driving the A27/A23/A24 every day I see plenty of tailgaters, even when it's misty or pissing down.

 

[ChilternGull]

If drivers keep the correct stopping distance from the vehicle in front nobody would hit anybody even if you built a wall across the motorway. I suspect the bonfire smoke story is infact a smokescreen to avoid this terrrible incident being linked to plans to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph. Driving around the M25/M23 to the Amex tailgating is a terrible problem and lorry drivers the worse offenders so was not surprised to see so many lorries in the wreckage. The lesson from the loss of life on the M5 has to be keep the correct stopping distance between vehicles and we will all be safer. Just do not get me started on lorry drivers - particularly the foreign plates - driving to close, signalling late, pulling out then signalling etc etc! A policeman said to be recently it is best to overtake a lorry with an additional lane between you and them because of the blind spot problem.

 

[keaton]

I suspect the bonfire smoke story is infact a smokescreen . .

Fnarf

 

[Dave the OAP]

Its is interesting now in our society there is no such thing as an accident.

Everything must have a blame and the uineviatable ambulance chasing insurance companies and legal profession.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Its is interesting now in our society there is no such thing as an accident.

Everything must have a blame and the uineviatable ambulance chasing insurance companies and legal profession.

I was looking earlier at the Acts of Parliament that were passed in 1605, the year of the Gunpowder Plot. [A wonderful thing is Google!]

Curiously, that same parliament passed a law (The Attorneys Act) to regulate the behaviour of lawyers. It doesn't seem to have worked.

"An Act to reform the Multitudes and Misdemeanors of Attornies and Solicitors at Law, and to avoid unnecessary Suits and Charges in Law".

The statutes at large, of England ... - Great Britain, John Raithby - Google Books

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I was looking earlier at the Acts of Parliament that were passed in 1605, the year of the Gunpowder Plot. [A wonderful thing is Google!]

Curiously, that same parliament passed a law (The Attorneys Act) to regulate the behaviour of lawyers. It doesn't seem to have worked.

Working today LB?

 

[severnside gull]

If drivers keep the correct stopping distance from the vehicle in front nobody would hit anybody even if you built a wall across the motorway. I suspect the bonfire smoke story is infact a smokescreen to avoid this terrrible incident being linked to plans to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph. Driving around the M25/M23 to the Amex tailgating is a terrible problem and lorry drivers the worse offenders so was not surprised to see so many lorries in the wreckage. The lesson from the loss of life on the M5 has to be keep the correct stopping distance between vehicles and we will all be safer. Just do not get me started on lorry drivers - particularly the foreign plates - driving to close, signalling late, pulling out then signalling etc etc! A policeman said to be recently it is best to overtake a lorry with an additional lane between you and them because of the blind spot problem.

Your point about lorry drivers may be particularly aposite although it would be dangerous to pre-empt the ongoing investigation. Anyone who drives on the motorways knows that lorry drivers put their foot to the floor as a matter of practice in order to maintain a set speed at the level at which they are limited (supposedly 59mph although I've had occassion to doubt that) and to maximise fuel economy and minimse journey time. They are taught to drive that way but as we have all seen it means that they will too often react late to hazards/slower vehicles in front of them and pull out late to overtake. When the overtaking option is taken away by vehicles in the other lanes, jacknifing and collisions are inevitable.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

If drivers keep the correct stopping distance from the vehicle in front nobody would hit anybody even if you built a wall across the motorway. I suspect the bonfire smoke story is infact a smokescreen to avoid this terrrible incident being linked to plans to raise the motorway speed limit to 80mph. Driving around the M25/M23 to the Amex tailgating is a terrible problem and lorry drivers the worse offenders so was not surprised to see so many lorries in the wreckage. The lesson from the loss of life on the M5 has to be keep the correct stopping distance between vehicles and we will all be safer. Just do not get me started on lorry drivers - particularly the foreign plates - driving to close, signalling late, pulling out then signalling etc etc! A policeman said to be recently it is best to overtake a lorry with an additional lane between you and them because of the blind spot problem.

Couple of points here Clifton it is the DEATH WISH driving that stuns me on motorways,truck after truck just afew yards behind the one in front they give themselves no chance whatsoever. Also i do alot of driving mainly at work and it is often 'our motorways are safe' but i am always happy to turn-off without many drivers do drive with care,however it is the one's that don't that are the problem and because of the volume and speed of traffic the results can be horrific.

 

[Spider]

If drivers keep the correct stopping distance from the vehicle in front nobody would hit anybody even if you built a wall across the motorway.

Is there actually physical room on our motorways for people to keep a correct stopping distance? If you picture the recommended stopping distances in wet or icy conditions, I can't see how anyone would ever get onto the motorways if people kept to them!

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Fair point Spider,but many are far to close for their own safety let alone other road user's.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

It's funny how the police seem to be looking to find any cause other than the fact that some drivers may actually have been driving too fast in the conditions. They seem to want to blame fog and fireworks rather than suggest that some of the victims may actually have been to blame for the accident. .

Funny? The only copper to post on this thread has suggested individuals' driving may have been to blame...

They HAVE to explore all the possibilities because people have died, doesn't mean the organisers of the fireworks display will end up being held responsible though. All they've said is that they're looking INTO it, based, presumably, on the accounts of those who survived the accident (bearing in mind they're hardly likely to tell police "yeah, it was shitty conditions and I was absolutely hammering it").

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Yep. It's all a plot to suppress bonfires in Lewes - especially those that take place within 500 metres of a trunk road. The Argus hysteria about "hundreds of people seriously injured" is part of the same conspiracy.

The Argus hysteria about "hundreds of people seriously injured" is part of the same conspiracy.
Do people still buy that rag.