M5 crash and the firework display.

[Leekbrookgull]

Details seem a bit thin on the ground as how far this display and bonfire were from the M5 but it has been stated the display was over before the crash. Like many we have been to large displays but i have never encounted thick smoke. Having said when i have driven around the Lingfield/East Grinstead area on a damp autumnal night one moment the vision is clear and the next moment it is dense fog/mist particularly in low lying areas or if water is near by. You ?

 

[Driver8]

I think one report said they were burning all sorts of shit on their bonfire - plastic and stuff - and this is said to have caused black smoke. No doubt we will find out in due course.

 

[Brovion]

I think one report said they were burning all sorts of shit on their bonfire - plastic and stuff - and this is said to have caused black smoke. No doubt we will find out in due course.

It's amazing how these rumours start and escalate. One person invents something, someone else hears it and repeats it without bothering to check, someone else embellishes it, and so on. There was no bonfire, just a firework display: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/06/m5-crash-investigate-fireworks-display


EDIT: I assume we're talking about Taunton Rugby Club? If not then apologies.

 

[Driver8]

I was just going by what was said on BBC R5 report earlier.

 

[Goring Gull]

I find it hard to believe the accident can be attributed to the bonfire and or firework display. I'm pretty sure it's probably down to some pulling out in front of someone (not seeing them in mirrors etc) then everyone driving to close to each other and being unable to stop in time add a few lorries to the mix and you get carnage, especially on a damp/wet road etc. Accidents happen unfortunately.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Always drive at a speed which enables you to stop safely within the distance you can see to be clear.

Let's be honest, how many drivers actually do?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

I find it hard to believe the accident can be attributed to the bonfire and or firework display. I'm pretty sure it's probably down to some pulling out in front of someone (not seeing them in mirrors etc) then everyone driving to close to each other and being unable to stop in time add a few lorries to the mix and you get carnage, especially on a damp/wet road etc. Accidents happen unfortunately.

With you on this Goring,surely if it was caused by fireworks/smoke we would have come across this before ? However if you have a 'bad' bonfire i/e wet and that won't 'catch' fire then maybe with fog/mist around you could get visability problems.

 

[bobbab5]

None of the news reports I've seen so far have even mentioned the fact that bad driving could've been a factor.
Fog and bad driving seems a more likely explanation than a bonfire causing it.

 

[ewe2]

I can see an end to only but the most regimented firework displays in the future,placing at risk all of our bonfire societies,asthe Health and safety issues mount.......!

 

[hitony]

A family of 3 who were involved were interviewed on Morning TV this morning, they stayed very lipped as to what they thought caused it, in fact would not answer a direct question about it, I am sure they had already been advised by solicitors, but that aside it was a terrible tradgedy and from a personal point of view I'm not going to speculate, in fact I don't think one can speculate with an issue like this unless you were there, even then I am sure it will be hard to know exactly what happened.

Sadly like many things like this, the legal people get great business out of it all and family's and friends are left grieving.

 

[Gazwag]

If you go to Lewes and if its damp and misty the firewords cause a lot of smoke even if the bonfire doesn't

 

[Bold Seagull]

I've driven down to the west country before and hit fog so thick you could barely drive faster than 10 mph. One minute doing 60 in the clear on a dual carriage, hardly anything on the road, then couldn't see a thing. Some guy started tail gating me, then overtook and had to slow right down when he obviously realised it was a damn sight easier to follow my lights than to lead the way. Could be no ones fault this one, will have to wait and see.

 

[Goring Gull]

Some people never drive with the conditions in mind, as an example how many times have you been on the Motorway when it's lashing it down so you can hardly see out the windscreen, yet there are still some clowns hacking down the fast lane at 90/100mph?

Problem is these days they always have to look for someone or something to blame - It could just be a tragic accident.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Fog and smoke leave no forensic evidence and speculation will therefore run rife - fuelled by individuals who have a vested interest in diverting attention away from other possible causes of this crash. The investigators will have their work cut out.

The issue isn't just one of attributing blame, though. The bigger question is whether motorway management needs to be improved. The M25 has variable speed limits, enforced by electronic signing and speed cameras that allow interventions to be made when road conditions require - either because of high volumes of traffic or local weather conditions. Such measures are incredibly expensive, but save lives and keep the traffic moving.

I would be deeply suspicious of any conclusion to this investigation that simply says "Let's blame Taunton Rugby Club", rather than "Let's spend public money making the M5 safer".

 

[Bozza]

It was a foggy evening down this way. I drove over the M5, a few miles further North, around 8:30 that night and the moors around where I live had patches of very thick fog. Hit similar at motorway speeds and you have to hope there's nothing in the way for you to hit.

 

[Richard Hebberd's Syrup]

One account in The Times today by somebody involved said that all of a sudden they hit a black-style fog that meant visibility was no more than a few feet. People were therefore braking like mad which caused a mass pile up.

They had some technical explanation as to why the fireworks could have caused it that from what I could gather involved a wet road, moisture in the air and hotter air higher up which trapped in a load of smoke from the fireworks causing this black, almost smog like condition which was likened to the sort of things that used to hang over big cities during the 1800's. Basically, it sounded like a load of conditions that conspired to cause one big problem and not something that you could predict to happen

 

[severnside gull]

we have a place not far away and were there over the weekend. There was fog about for certain and there had been heavy rain up until about two hours before the crash. Conditions were not good and the haze that you get from bonfires and fireworks made it even more difficult. I didn't drive more than 5 miles to the shops and back but it wasn't fun. A friend of ours was about a mile back on the M5 when the accident happened and had to sit on the motorway for several hours. He wasn't close enough to experience the conditions in the immediate vicinity of the crash but said he thought it unlikely that the bonfire display was a primary cause and thinks (instinctively) that the authorities are just looking for a scapegoat. Maybe true, maybe not but even if there was black smoke it is ultimately the drivers at fault and several of them paid a heavy price. Someone on the west country news who was near the crash said that the black smoke came from one of the lorries which had gone up in flames but that judgement made in the immediate aftermath seems to be being overlooked.

 

[beorhthelm]

One account in The Times today by somebody involved said that all of a sudden they hit a black-style fog that meant visibility was no more than a few feet. People were therefore braking like mad which caused a mass pile up.

They had some technical explanation as to why the fireworks could have caused it that from what I could gather involved a wet road, moisture in the air and hotter air higher up which trapped in a load of smoke from the fireworks causing this black, almost smog like condition which was likened to the sort of things that used to hang over big cities during the 1800's. Basically, it sounded like a load of conditions that conspired to cause one big problem and not something that you could predict to happen

so rather than just dismiss the fireworks as a red herring, they construct an elaborate explaination how fireworks can be blames? thats from the Times? sound more like conspiracy nutters.

actaully, not quite as bad, i've seen one proposal that it was the result of a satanic ritual by the background government, proved by some numerology mumbo, presumably to usher in new laws or distract us from other news events.

 

[Barrow Boy]

This is an account of what happened from someone who was involved in the tragic M5 accident, at times very harrowing listening but he gives a good insight into the visibility problems from his point of view. I hope I would have shown the bravery and calmness that this gentleman displayed. The interview starts at 10:12 in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016vkqw/Stephen_Nolan_05_11_2011/

 

[Lord Bracknell]

so rather than just dismiss the fireworks as a red herring, they construct an elaborate explaination how fireworks can be blames? thats from the Times? sound more like conspiracy nutters.

actaully, not quite as bad, i've seen one proposal that it was the result of a satanic ritual by the background government, proved by some numerology mumbo, presumably to usher in new laws or distract us from other news events.

Yep. It's all a plot to suppress bonfires in Lewes - especially those that take place within 500 metres of a trunk road. The Argus hysteria about "hundreds of people seriously injured" is part of the same conspiracy.