Louis Theroux, last night.

[NMH]

Is there a complete absence of any form of rehab in US prisons or was that just skipped in last night's whistle-stop tour? Given what was presented to us, I doubt many would be surprised to hear high repeat offender rates.

Erm... doesn't sound like this was filmed around a rehab type of prisoner.

Rehab a guy who's in for 11 life sentances/500+ years ?? Why, what good will it do him, unless or except - you consider the concept of him meeting his maker with a repentant attitude.

 

[Frutos]

I think you're missing the entire point of LT. He isn't naive and doesn't do anything inadvertently, he is just good at what he does i.e. appearing that way to the less intelligent people who are his subjects on the show, which makes them open up to this apparently naive geek. It's telling that he chooses 'easy' subject matter i.e. Americans, who on the whole don't understand irony or sarcasm and as such he gets away with it. Over here, apart from Christine Hamilton and her husband, he just wouldn't get away with it.

On the occasion in question, I'd suggest it was naivety (or at least stupidity) on his part. He repeatedly asked a succession of wrestlers and trainers about how 'fake' it all is, then either was surprised or feigned it very well when they took offence at his basically insulting and belittling what they do for a living (as mentioned before, one of the trainers invited him to join in a training session so as to better understand how 'fake' it is, and he lasted about 5 mins of the warm-up before vomiting and demanding to be allowed to use the loo).

He was also showed up as not having done his research too well beforehand by not being able to name a good few of the people he was interviewing despite them being major name stars in wrestling and in the promotion he was making the film about.

Don't get me wrong, I like Theroux and generally find his stuff very interesting and informative, but this wasn't one of his finer hours for me.

 

[NMH]

I got a few impressions from this program.

The presenter, Theroux, did not place any predisposed attitude upon the show, because that would work to affect the watcher - this did not need for the watcher to be manipulated in any way, but to gather their own impressions. A canvas without need for explaining what was on it. Great, I didn't need my impression made for me here - so I think he did an excellent job. His 'naivety' or innocence in interviewing several different types, allowed them to introduce themselves, for the viewer to gather their own impression. These cases don't need anyone placing predisposed attitude over them, and they'd be pissed off by that anyway.
A lot of guys were pissed off just because there was a representative from the outside world, and a cameraman using them for a story. They shouted from their cells in the corridor, and when Theroux left the yard.

San Quentin is pretty near where I used to live, it's on the entrance-way to the Richmond Bridge, which goes across the SF Bay to Berkeley. Having, obviously, never seen the inside, but being relatively familiar with the outside, it was interesting to see that.

Prisons are full of bad guys, people who are close to ferrel in nature, who compromise for no-one, for nothing. They're also aware of the codes they are bound by. Many in SQ will have 'given up hope'. There is no other way of life for them. That's why, even when they come out, they'll live a way that they are formed by, and to. A harsh way, for those who don't know it, and on the outside will be a lot of pansy types who are trying to tell each other (and them) the way they think it is. "hey feller, don't walk across my lawn" and shit like that. To live to THAT kind of crap, will be close-to impossible for a man who lived on the inside and is set free.... to have his freedom compromised by petty bullshit.

The real hard guys and rogues are funny, like the guard said. They don't 'try' to be funny, they have a dry outlook to life, the stuff they say won't be affected by much forethought. The order is not sorted out by bullshit, fake 'ranking' systems or bosses - it's down to respect. Respect among thieves.

Silva, like probably most of the lifers, had a deep sadness to him. An admittance of what he is and was, that he was brutal, that what he did were crimes. He recognizes that society was right, and that it's better off without him in it. He has a lot of regret that he didn't face himself before and have it in him to judge his own actions - and now that he is facing himself, it's too late to turn back. So, he has to live his life and make the best of it as it is, like he said. He's not stupid, of course he's not. But he can't have remorse or repentance enough, that will ever work to set him free. Very sadly, he had not enough self-esteem to build on when he was young - he didn't think he was even employable. Being bad was the only way he could get respect, and just with other bad guys.

When the guard took him away, he was reminding the dude that he was powerless, and doing it on camera. That was sad too, the screw was punking the guy just to be screwy, because he could. Or maybe to show how he ended up - subject to power like he had once had over his victims.

What I got from that program, was sympathy for those who never thought there was another way, and their intelligence is now only there telling them they are screwed. They fought authority just to see that it wins. It didn't prove that they were tough, in the end. It didn't bolster their self-esteem in any enduring way, but like a drug - it got them a temporary high followed by a lasting low.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

On the occasion in question, I'd suggest it was naivety (or at least stupidity) on his part. He repeatedly asked a succession of wrestlers and trainers about how 'fake' it all is, then either was surprised or feigned it very well when they took offence at his basically insulting and belittling what they do for a living (as mentioned before, one of the trainers invited him to join in a training session so as to better understand how 'fake' it is, and he lasted about 5 mins of the warm-up before vomiting and demanding to be allowed to use the loo).

He was also showed up as not having done his research too well beforehand by not being able to name a good few of the people he was interviewing despite them being major name stars in wrestling and in the promotion he was making the film about.

Don't get me wrong, I like Theroux and generally find his stuff very interesting and informative, but this wasn't one of his finer hours for me.

It is fake isn't it? Certainly not wrestling, as opposed to dramatic arts.

 

[Frutos]

It is fake isn't it? Certainly not wrestling, as opposed to dramatic arts.

Depends on what you mean by fake. If you mean are the contests pre-determined, then absolutely it's fake.

However, the physical contact between the two wrestlers is not fake (grossly exaggerated at times, obviously, but not fake), and neither are the endless list of injuries suffered during matches or the potential for suffering those injuries/injuring someone else if you don't know what you're doing (which was the point that Mr. Theroux didn't seem able to grasp in his programme).

A classic example cited by wrestling fans when asked about the fake nature of it is this, attached to the question "Explain which part of this clip is fake":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAQgz_AmPQQ&feature=related

I watch wrestling, but I do so for the same reasons as people watch Corrie/EastEnders, ie: entertainment rather than as a genuine sporting contest.

 

[Rangdo]

not up to his usual standard I dont think

and that prison seemed pretty tame really

The series Lockdown on Five has some pretty nasty prisons. Quite an interesting series studying things like gang culture and how they fight it. They had some good CCTV footage on one of the programs the other week of some prison yard brawls. Evil stuff.

 

[NMH]

The series Lockdown on Five has some pretty nasty prisons. Quite an interesting series studying things like gang culture and how they fight it. They had some good CCTV footage on one of the programs the other week of some prison yard brawls. Evil stuff.

Prisons in the US (and probably many other countries) force people to become 'types', associate with their own and disassociate with everyone else. That hardly trains people to harmoniously re-integrate into society, and the result is that they learn from their peers about the respect system in crime.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

The ex-nazi who had refused to stab a cell mate who'd borrowed a black guy's dominoes could have been a storyline straight out of American History X.... although Ed Norton didn't find himself in a protected yard full of paedophiles!

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Erm... doesn't sound like this was filmed around a rehab type of prisoner.

Rehab a guy who's in for 11 life sentances/500+ years ?? Why, what good will it do him, unless or except - you consider the concept of him meeting his maker with a repentant attitude.

It didnt just follow that prisoner. It also followed a number of others who were due for release.

 

[NMH]

It didnt just follow that prisoner. It also followed a number of others who were due for release.

Yeah, I realise that there could be some ability to go straight for a couple of them, after I managed to watch it all the way through (courtesy of that i-player link).
Still, I don't think there's much rehabilitation going on in prisons at all - if they don't learn that it's a shit place to end up, then they are likely doomed to be repeat offenders. Some even get addicted to jail and do everything to go straight back inside asap.

If they didn't think they were unemployable before a life of crime, they certainly don't change their minds about their employability after a spell in nick. One lad who did seem to have come to a realization, was 'Playboy'.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

On BBC2 now.

 

[Frutos]

On BBC2 now.

Was just about to bump this, am watching it again.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I still can't get over how cool and laidback most of them are about wasting most of their life in a prison. I guess they must have a pretty rough time out in the real world if prison is preferrable

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Have you noticed how in these kinds of programmes (documentaries about criminals, gangs etc) the (U.S) citizens always seem to come across as at least reasonably articulate / intelligent? If Louis did a programme on British crims he'd struggle to understand half of what was being said to him (quite literally)!

Is it due to the TV-driven national pastime of expressing yourself loudly and as regularly as poss?....i.e people get used to making themselves understood purely by the level of repetition.

Or is it that the producers chose their interviewees?

 

[bhaexpress]

Is there a complete absence of any form of rehab in US prisons or was that just skipped in last night's whistle-stop tour? Given what was presented to us, I doubt many would be surprised to hear high repeat offender rates.

That pretty much sums it up actually. A lot of people in American jails are there because of their 'Three Strikes' law. That's (for those who don't know) is when a felon is convicted three times in their entire lifetime (even if the crimes are farily minor) the then get locked up for life with a long tarrif, if any, for parole. American prisons are pretty dreadful at the best of times and the fact that so many inmates have very little hope (even if they get freed their chances of a 'normal' life are very limited) it's little wonder why they are so brutal.

Even our very limited rehab facilities are still a long way from the Americans' non existant offerings. America has the highest prison population per capita in the whole world. They are also just about the only Western State still endorsing the death penalty. They probably have just about the worst welfare system in the Western and I personally feel that it's not unrelated to their inmate population. Many people in the US commit crimes just to survive.

Oh, that program was a repeat.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

There was a jolly good article in the Times a while ago.

Death Row Rodeo - The story of a transformation of one of the most violent prisons in America.

Death Row Rodeo the Louisiana prison miracle - Times Online

 

[Jello]

They should make them dance like the Cebu Detention and Rehabilitation Center in the Philippines
check them out on youtube (blocked at work)

 

[Barrel of Fun]

BBC 2 now.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Shite. Thought this was the West Baptist Church Thread. The 'God HATES Fags' is on now.

 

[Old Greg]

This one really angers me, i cant fathom how someone can be so ignorant, and just hate everyone, and hide behind a feeble excuse of religion, if you what you think they believe in is religion.