Long ball V passing game

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

I am not asking for the hoof ball game, love the passing footie, but every once in a while, could we just mix it up a bit.
There was a couple of time yesterday, when in the WSU you see it so obviously, Coventry back line was pushed up so high and CMS was on the shoulder begging for a chip over the top for him to run onto. He has enough pace to beat most defenders and gets his body between the ball and the defender.
We were passing it across the back as per usual, and without and creative midfielders like Vicente or Buckley, there was nowhere to go.
Surely a ball for CMS to run onto would surprise the defense, cos we dont normally do that, and IMHO, this is playing to CMS's strength.
Poor bloke just looks more and more frustrated.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I thought we played quite a few long balls yesterday.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Poor bloke just looks more and more frustrated.

CMS will certainly be feeling frustrated at doing all the work for recent goals only to see somebody else's name appear on the scoresheet; I'm thinking Harley v Barnsley and Keogh (o.g) yesterday. Poor bugger runs himself into the ground for precious little reward stats-wise.

 

[Medwayseagull]

CMS will certainly be feeling frustrated at doing all the work for recent goals only to see somebody else's name appear on the scoresheet; I'm thinking Harley v Barnsley and Keogh (o.g) yesterday. Poor bugger runs himself into the ground for precious little reward stats-wise.

In both cases he did miss the initial chance so he only has himself to blame.

 

[Mendoza]

why play long ball when we dont have a single attacking player that can win a header?

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Not talking about pumping aimless long balls and hoping to win headers, read the 1st post, was talking about chipping the last defender and let CMS beat them with his pace.
We need to play to his strengths, currently his skills are not being used

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Hailsham,with you on this if someone like CMS is sitting on the shoulder of the last man then you could even knock it wide for him to run on too,whilst the passer of the ball goes for the 1-2.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Hailsham,with you on this if someone like CMS is sitting on the shoulder of the last man then you could even knock it wide for him to run on too,whilst the passer of the ball goes for the 1-2.

o u make it sound so simple...often is sitting from the stands...i like an earlier poster thought we did start to mix it yesterday..but hey ho its a game of opinions

 

[Life After Bobby]

Firstly the long ball has always been part of the passing game if it's to a player/into space for a player to latch on to. I seriously doubt there is anything in the coaching that discourages that - far from it (otherwise Greer would be constantly hauled up for his attempts). Would have thought that what Poyet and co. are drilling into them is not to punt the ball speculatively up the pitch when the chances are we'll lose possession (especially without a player who, like Murray, can win the headers with purpose - i can't recall Paynter winning a single header yesterday, but that's another story)

And I know it can be frustrating in the WSU when you can see the obvious cross-field or defense splitting pass. but the reason we can see them so clearly is because we are in the WSU. The problem is that the players play the game at pitch level - it's a lot tricker and requires a certain level of skill to see those "obvious" chances let alone judging the weight/height/length of the pass from down there.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No. The world has moved on from the old English way of playing direct football up to the big fella. Let's stick with this passing game and try and catch up the Brazillians, Germans and Spanish.

 

[Notters]

Oh Lordy, not this again.

why play long ball when we dont have a single attacking player that can win a header?

THIS.

 

[CAPTAIN GREALISH]

ask a west ham fan ?

 

[clapham_gull]

As Poyet pointed out at a fans club meeting last season.

Getting players to play one was eess easy, getting them to play more than one system eess complicated.

So I'm glad we're mixing it up a little bit.

That's what he wants. But what he doesn't want is hoof and hope.

 

[Surf's Up]

We're certainly not doing the long diagonal ball out to the wing - I sit in WSU and can clearly see the opportunity to pass it diagonally to a player in acres of space, usually on the left wing, and the pass never comes - and this has been the case pretty much all season.

 

[Simster]

There is a place for the occasional long ball. It is bollocks to suggest we should never play it, IMO, but it should be rarely used as opposed to a "lump it forward" default option. However, in order to play the long ball effectively, you need a forward able to hold the ball up and the only unfortunate attribute of CMS is his inability to do this with his back to goal.

Still, it was good to see Casper back between the sticks and just occasionally looking to use the width of the pitch by playing a long ball to our wide midfielders in situations where the opposition were too narrow to close them down.

 

[e77]

At times yesterday we moved it from back to front quicker than we have for a while.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Firstly the long ball has always been part of the English game if it's to a player/into space for a player to latch on to. I seriously doubt there is anything in the coaching that discourages that - far from it (otherwise Greer would be constantly hauled up for his attempts). Would have thought that what Poyet and co. are drilling into them is not to punt the ball speculatively up the pitch when the chances are we'll lose possession (especially without a player who, like Murray, can win the headers with purpose - i can't recall Paynter winning a single header yesterday, but that's another story)

And I know it can be frustrating in the WSU when you can see the obvious cross-field or defense splitting pass. but the reason we can see them so clearly is because we are in the WSU. The problem is that the players play the game at pitch level - it's a lot tricker and requires a certain level of skill to see those "obvious" chances let alone judging the weight/height/length of the pass from down there.

I have corrected you.

 

[Life After Bobby]

I have corrected you.

No you haven't, you've completely changed the meaning! Funny, cos we're arguing from the same side.

To rephrase it, I was saying that there is nothing in the passing game that says all passes have to be short - there is always a place for long passes (as opposed to speculative punts up the pitch). They are however much harder to do, and just because you can see the opportunity from the WSU, a) the players don't have the same viewpoint from pitch level and b) accurate long passing takes a higher level of skill to pull off.

As a particularly special and in no way typical example of this, I would like to use 89th minute winner as evidence:



(on the English commentary - not used here because I couldn't find one with a good picture and the preceding play - Barry Davies erroneously says "long ball from Frank De Boer" rather than long pass)

 

[Life After Bobby]

Sure this has been shared on here before, but the words of GP himself.

http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/tactics/countering-a-team-that-defends-deep

Keep the ball, remain patient and mix up your game, advises Brighton manager Gus Poyet

“When a side is playing really deep against you – usually when they’re trying to sit on a lead or play for a draw – the key is patience. I need to make sure my players play their normal game, and have the belief that they’re good enough to break the opposition down.


There is no point panicking. You have to keep your shape and stick to what you’ve been working on in training, otherwise you’re not going to achieve anything. So stay calm and be persistent.

The next key thing is to keep the ball. At Brighton, we train very hard on maintaining possession and it’s crucial in a situation such as this. Keep probing and looking for space, because a chance will inevitably come.

Maintain your shape - I don’t believe in suddenly sticking everyone up top. Next, it’s important to mix up your game. If what you do all the time hasn’t been working, a deep defence can get comfortable. So change it around.

We’re a team that likes to pass, but the option of going more direct can cause defenders problems and surprise them. Play the odd ball earlier than usual. We’ve done well varying our football this year.

Finally, if you want to see an absolute masterclass on defending deep, Jose Mourinho gave it with Inter Milan in the Champions League semi-final against Barcelona last season.

It was a gift to us managers – a lesson that should cost thousands of pounds, given away for free on the television.

But I don’t know how you can overcome a side defending as well as that. Even Barça couldn’t manage it!”

POYET'S LOWDOWN
Attacking a side that's playing a high line? Avoid the temptation to hit it long, says Gus

Keep your forwards moving

“Movement is the most important thing for strikers facing a high line. Forwards need to make it confusing for the opposition. Make a variety of different runs, swap positions, come deep and get away from the defenders, and constantly look for pockets of space.”

Don’t go direct

“If you hit it long against a high line, you’ll find the ball going through to the keeper a lot – especially in England when the ball is often wet and moving fast. We like to play on the floor against a high line, because if you slip a man through with one or two touches, they’ll be onto the keeper. If you’re precise, it’s easier to play against a high line than a deep defence. Watch how Spain do it!”

Know your strengths

“Intelligent players and good passes are important here, but for a coach it’s about knowing your team’s capabilities. You can only work within your resources, so don’t try to achieve things that are impossible. Keep your men doing a function they can do well, and you will succeed.”

 

[Gritt23]

What I want to see when we have a team defending high is some fast passing up to Harley, or Noone, to slip the ball in behind the defence to CMS to run onto. I'm sure that's where a lot of his goals came from at Peterborough with Boyd playing him in. They were not a team hitting it long to a big forward. McLean is strong, but hardly a target man for teh long ball.