[Other Sport] Lewis Hamilton the greatest living British sportsman?

[Bold Seagull]

I think it depends which of these you are using to measure against

sportsman
1. a man who takes part in a sport, especially as a professional.
2. a person who behaves sportingly.

Hamilton is an incredible driver who has maintained phenomenal levels of performance and consistency for some time now. His levels of determination to win are frightening. The best drivers get the best cars and he has more than earned his seat over the years.

For behaving sportingly like Schumacher I think Hamilton has that ruthless streak that makes him the successful driver he is but won’t win him that many friends around the pit or in the general public.

That’s why you get these divided opinions on him as different people use different views of what they want from their sportsman.

It is very rare for someone to have the talent and the grace to go with it and beyond Federer struggling to think of any active sportsman who do.

Hamilton hasn't been involved in any ruthless incidents such as Schumacher intentionally crashing his car into a rival that meant they couldn't win the world championship from him. He has incidents, but he is an incredibly well respected driver in the paddock. Where are you getting the info. that he doesn't have many friends around the pit – he is arguably one of the most popular drivers in the pit. Interested to know where you've got that opinion from?

 

[cunning fergus]

He also drives a Mercedes. You may as well conclude any German manufacturer that existed pre WWII and survived beyond it probably had some link with the Nazi regime at some point. It’s amazing what people latch onto.

The conclusion is fact, German industry in the war was supported by slave labour to the tune of nearly half its workforce.

German industry that gladly supported a regime and ideology responsible for a 5 year world was resulting in millions of deaths.

These days we are looking back 400 years to pull down and remove any vestige of this country’s past if it was associated with slavery, and companies like Lloyd’s of London and Greene King are developing reparation initiatives to the descendants of slavery.

The horrors of WW2 are less than 100 years ago, for those like Lewis who are actively pointing back to the companies and systems that benefitted from slavery 400 years ago; it’s only logical that they are only taken seriously if they are not benefiting from other companies that benefitted from slavery a mere 80 years ago.

Personally I could move on from that position, I get more vexed that he chooses to berate the country of his birth from Monaco. That says a lot more about his ethical position. If he wants an opinion on the UK he needs to pay tax here first.

 

[The Wizard]

As someone who has watched F1 for 20 years and has done Karting everytime I read an F1 thread on here and the ignorant comments that come with it, it makes me want to tear my own eye balls out.

I’m sick to death of reading Hamilton isn’t a good guy off track, he’s his own man, he might not be to some peoples taste what he gets up too with his fashion and Monaco lifestyle but I’ve yet to see anyone with any legitimate reasons for actually disliking his off track persona, aside from nonsense about his taxes, Button also lives in Monaco yet we never see the tax nonsense thrown at him. I’d love people to explain what it is about him away from the track they dislike. By the way he is in the top 5000 U.K. tax payers

Greatness in F1 is often defined by having a fast car, unfortunately this will always be the fact unless everyone is in equal cars, I firmly believe Hamilton would be the quickest driver in equal cars anyway, we’ve seen from his McLaren days when they had a dog of a car he could drag every inch of performance out of a car, I see F1 as very much like any other sport, there’s a lot of luck involved in your career, you earn your stripes whilst your young and prove yourself and that earns you the right to drive the best car or play in the best team. All the greats of F1 have driven the best cars when they’ve won championships and to be honest, all the greats have a ruthless will to win and hate losing, this could be construed as being a sore loser or whatever you say, but I’m like that and I’m not a top sportsman. The pure consistency and level of performance Hamilton has maintained throughout his career is staggering.

As for F1 is just driving around in circles or isn’t a sport ignorant brigade, I will not even raise to the bait of those people that believe that, it’s pure lack of understanding and ignorance about how demanding F1 is and the pure skill levels required to even get the car of the start line, let alone at 300kph around some of the fastest corners on the planet. Admittedly many people won’t think he’s our greatest sportsman and that is fine, it’s all about opinions in sport but don’t be ignorant.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I dunno... you have nothing better than some car driver?

This reminds me of the German press “commenting” on Britain’s Got Talent had a young girl with a dancing dog.

 

[Questions]

This. They might have a lost the war but they looked damn good doing it.

Oh they romped home in the 2nd world war uniform championships. The Russians as always with anything to do with style .... failed miserably.

( clicks SS General Officer Leather Men's Black Jack Riding Boots together and leaves the thread)

 

[bluenitsuj]

He drives a car.

 

[cunning fergus]

This. They might have a lost the war but they looked damn good doing it.

That’s an excellent point.

Peter Sutcliffe was the same apparently, always looked sharp when he was out on the town in a nice Hand made suit with a camel hair coat.

I suppose if you were a woman having her head cracked open with Peter’s hammer it would be something of a consolation that he was so well put together, sartorially speaking.

 

[jakarta]

As someone who has watched F1 for 20 years and has done Karting everytime I read an F1 thread on here and the ignorant comments that come with it, it makes me want to tear my own eye balls out.

I’m sick to death of reading Hamilton isn’t a good guy off track, he’s his own man, he might not be to some peoples taste what he gets up too with his fashion and Monaco lifestyle but I’ve yet to see anyone with any legitimate reasons for actually disliking his off track persona, aside from nonsense about his taxes, Button also lives in Monaco yet we never see the tax nonsense thrown at him. I’d love people to explain what it is about him away from the track they dislike. By the way he is in the top 5000 U.K. tax payers

Greatness in F1 is often defined by having a fast car, unfortunately this will always be the fact unless everyone is in equal cars, I firmly believe Hamilton would be the quickest driver in equal cars anyway, we’ve seen from his McLaren days when they had a dog of a car he could drag every inch of performance out of a car, I see F1 as very much like any other sport, there’s a lot of luck involved in your career, you earn your stripes whilst your young and prove yourself and that earns you the right to drive the best car or play in the best team. All the greats of F1 have driven the best cars when they’ve won championships and to be honest, all the greats have a ruthless will to win and hate losing, this could be construed as being a sore loser or whatever you say, but I’m like that and I’m not a top sportsman. The pure consistency and level of performance Hamilton has maintained throughout his career is staggering.

As for F1 is just driving around in circles or isn’t a sport ignorant brigade, I will not even raise to the bait of those people that believe that, it’s pure lack of understanding and ignorance about how demanding F1 is and the pure skill levels required to even get the car of the start line, let alone at 300kph around some of the fastest corners on the planet. Admittedly many people won’t think he’s our greatest sportsman and that is fine, it’s all about opinions in sport but don’t be ignorant.

Agree with all of this about racing drivers not being 'sportsmen', my driving improved in my teens when I started to address my fitness and did Gym sessions and started running with a Cheshire County Hurdler in the evening, hated both of course but didn't feel utterly knackered after a days racing any more!

BTW when did you race Karts? In my era the best Brits were Terry Fullerton (100cc World Champion) and David Leslie (gearbox classes). No idea why the former never went on to a proper Racing career, the latter clearly did in Saloon Cars and tragically died in an aircraft accident back in 2008.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The conclusion is fact, German industry in the war was supported by slave labour to the tune of nearly half its workforce.

German industry that gladly supported a regime and ideology responsible for a 5 year world was resulting in millions of deaths.

These days we are looking back 400 years to pull down and remove any vestige of this country’s past if it was associated with slavery, and companies like Lloyd’s of London and Greene King are developing reparation initiatives to the descendants of slavery.

The horrors of WW2 are less than 100 years ago, for those like Lewis who are actively pointing back to the companies and systems that benefitted from slavery 400 years ago; it’s only logical that they are only taken seriously if they are not benefiting from other companies that benefitted from slavery a mere 80 years ago.

Personally I could move on from that position, I get more vexed that he chooses to berate the country of his birth from Monaco. That says a lot more about his ethical position. If he wants an opinion on the UK he needs to pay tax here first.

Tell you what, you get hold of Lewis and see if he’ll consent to being photographed with a statue of Hitler and I’ll get together an angry mob to tear it down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MattBackHome]

Oh they romped home in the 2nd world war uniform championships. The Russians as always with anything to do with style .... failed miserably.

( clicks SS General Officer Leather Men's Black Jack Riding Boots together and leaves the thread)

Agree they win the uniform war. Runners up spot however, IMHO, would go to the B17 crews; jaunty angled hat with headphones, sheepswool lined bomber jacket with decorative back, baggy combat trousers and massive boots to give someone a good kick in the bollocks if you happen to walk away from any wreckage. Quick mosey through the flak & back and then back for a nights debauchery in Taranto or somesuch place.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

It's near impossible to compare performances across not just different sports but different eras. What shouldn't be impossible is acknowledging Hamilton's achievements and his place in the F1 pantheon of greats. Already he has more pole positions and more wins(the same number, incidentally, as Prost and Senna combined) than anyone else in the history of the sport. In a matter of weeks no one will have won more world titles and by this time next year most likely he will stand alone at the summit of world titles. He's an incredibly talented and focused driver with a remarkable ability to get the best out of his car and to perform when needed.

He clearly and undeniably stands comparison with any of the greats of his sport of any previous era. Yet people not only do deny it they give ridiculous reasons for denying it.

It's not a real sport.

He only wins because he's in the fastest car.

He's a tax dodger.

He's an idiot.

etc etc

All of which are easily refutable. What people mean is that they don't like him for whatever personal reason they may have and begrudge his success but don't want to appear petty and bitter so make up a ludicrous excuse.

Deal with his achievements on merit not on your personal biases.

 

[bhanutz]

As someone who has watched F1 for 20 years and has done Karting everytime I read an F1 thread on here and the ignorant comments that come with it, it makes me want to tear my own eye balls out.

I’m sick to death of reading Hamilton isn’t a good guy off track, he’s his own man, he might not be to some peoples taste what he gets up too with his fashion and Monaco lifestyle but I’ve yet to see anyone with any legitimate reasons for actually disliking his off track persona, aside from nonsense about his taxes, Button also lives in Monaco yet we never see the tax nonsense thrown at him. I’d love people to explain what it is about him away from the track they dislike. By the way he is in the top 5000 U.K. tax payers

Greatness in F1 is often defined by having a fast car, unfortunately this will always be the fact unless everyone is in equal cars, I firmly believe Hamilton would be the quickest driver in equal cars anyway, we’ve seen from his McLaren days when they had a dog of a car he could drag every inch of performance out of a car, I see F1 as very much like any other sport, there’s a lot of luck involved in your career, you earn your stripes whilst your young and prove yourself and that earns you the right to drive the best car or play in the best team. All the greats of F1 have driven the best cars when they’ve won championships and to be honest, all the greats have a ruthless will to win and hate losing, this could be construed as being a sore loser or whatever you say, but I’m like that and I’m not a top sportsman. The pure consistency and level of performance Hamilton has maintained throughout his career is staggering.

As for F1 is just driving around in circles or isn’t a sport ignorant brigade, I will not even raise to the bait of those people that believe that, it’s pure lack of understanding and ignorance about how demanding F1 is and the pure skill levels required to even get the car of the start line, let alone at 300kph around some of the fastest corners on the planet. Admittedly many people won’t think he’s our greatest sportsman and that is fine, it’s all about opinions in sport but don’t be ignorant.

A sport where the only real chance of participating is if you are rich... Not for me Tory boy!

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Agree they win the uniform war. Runners up spot however, IMHO, would go to the B17 crews; jaunty angled hat with headphones, sheepswool lined bomber jacket with decorative back, baggy combat trousers and massive boots to give someone a good kick in the bollocks if you happen to walk away from any wreckage. Quick mosey through the flak & back and then back for a nights debauchery in Taranto or somesuch place.

Hugo Boss made Nazi uniforms. No, really.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-fashion-label-hugo-boss-goes-public-with-nazi-past/a-15414490

 

[Seasider78]

Hamilton hasn't been involved in any ruthless incidents such as Schumacher intentionally crashing his car into a rival that meant they couldn't win the world championship from him. He has incidents, but he is an incredibly well respected driver in the paddock. Where are you getting the info. that he doesn't have many friends around the pit – he is arguably one of the most popular drivers in the pit. Interested to know where you've got that opinion from?

I do not profess to have any inside knowledge and I do not follow F1 as much as I used to but the last time I did he was having on and off track spats with Vettel, the well documented relationship with Rosberg and was frequently calling the team out in the radio for decisions that he was not happy with. He is a winner and I saw these as the traits as someone who is relentless in the pursuit of success. Not a bad thing at all and I am a big fan of his but can see how some of the public do not warm to him and how he could be difficult to manage and work with when things are not going his way. That’s just me view from what I have seen and only those in and around him will know the real story.

The main point of my post was different people have different traits they look for in their sporting stars which influence their opinion of them.

Some people hated Chris Eubanks flash persona and preferred Nigel Benns raw approach, others loved Eubanks showmanship and thought Benn was a street brawler. In motor racing everyone loved Button when his on track success was nowhere near Hamilton’s. Some people cannot see Grealish talent beyond his hair and shinpads!

It’s down to how the individual chooses to judge and rank their sportsman.

 

[cunning fergus]

Tell you what, you get hold of Lewis and see if he’ll consent to being photographed with a statue of Hitler and I’ll get together an angry mob to tear it down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will tell you what, if I wanted to make a show about fighting historical injustice, I wouldn’t do it whilst a shill of Mercedes.......

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Friedrich-Flick

His grandson is still their heir to Mercedes-Benz, so if Lewis wanted to strike a blow against those benefitting from slavery he could give Micheal Flick a punch in 5he face next time their paths cross in Monaco.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Well they both live in Switzerland!

Good point!

 

[Boroseagull]

I know she is not a 'sportsman', but the achievements of Rachel Atherton over the last fifteen years, in one of the toughest sports imaginable, are criminally underestimated. To my mind, you don't have to be in a sport that gets enormous media coverage to be considered the greatest.

I guarantee that the majority of people who read this will not even have heard of her.

She has been utterly dominant in Downhill Mountain Biking for over fifteen years, She even had one season when she won every single World Cup race. To watch her is a nerve jangling experience, and I find it incredible that such a successful British sportswoman has never received the kudos she deserves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhTFVa0h9Rk

'king hell! Wonder if she has any of her own teeth left?

 

[Icy Gull]

A sport where the only real chance of participating is if you are rich... Not for me Tory boy!

Which makes Hamilton’s achievements and his father’s sacrifices even more impressive. He is also black which was a massive disadvantage in motor sport

But as an eight year-old sleeping on his father’s sofa shortly after his parent’s divorce, F1 success seemed an impossible dream. Father, Anthony, still chased it with all his might, at times holding down four jobs.

“My Dad said in the first year we spent £20,000. He put my step-mum’s life savings, his life savings and re-mortgaged the house just for that year,” he added

“It’s a huge gamble and it’s a huge commitment. A lot of people do that and don’t get the end result I did.

“My Dad and Linda just gave up their idea of going shopping and getting things like nice new clothes and all the things women do, to keep me racing.

“She would be in the back of this box trailer next to a gas fire sitting with my brother on her lap, and a pot of Noor chicken noodle. It was the best. We had it every race weekend.”

 

[highflyer]

It's near impossible to compare performances across not just different sports but different eras. What shouldn't be impossible is acknowledging Hamilton's achievements and his place in the F1 pantheon of greats. Already he has more pole positions and more wins(the same number, incidentally, as Prost and Senna combined) than anyone else in the history of the sport. In a matter of weeks no one will have won more world titles and by this time next year most likely he will stand alone at the summit of world titles. He's an incredibly talented and focused driver with a remarkable ability to get the best out of his car and to perform when needed.

He clearly and undeniably stands comparison with any of the greats of his sport of any previous era. Yet people not only do deny it they give ridiculous reasons for denying it.

It's not a real sport.

He only wins because he's in the fastest car.

He's a tax dodger.

He's an idiot.

etc etc

All of which are easily refutable. What people mean is that they don't like him for whatever personal reason they may have and begrudge his success but don't want to appear petty and bitter so make up a ludicrous excuse.

Deal with his achievements on merit not on your personal biases.

The tax dodger bit really isn't easily refutable. He's not alone though (see also - Messi).

Other than that I am pretty neutral. I understand he is good guy in how he behaves generally both inside and outside the sport. And I admire his willingness to speak out on BLM.

F1 interests me not at all, but I can still acknowledge the skill, guts and physical requirements involved in winning. I have no doubt he has 'earned' his right to drive the best car, but nonetheless, the fact remains that the equipment (and money) is a significant factor to a degree that is true of very few other sports.

There are so many factors and it's so hard to compare across different sports. At this moment in time, based on a 'broader than just sport' assessment it would be Rashford but Hamilton would have to be in the mix.

 

[Questions]

I saw him on his little kiddies scooter before one Grand Pricks recently........
He was so cute