Lewes Tory candidate backs Falmer!

[BensGrandad]

The only thing that can be said in Norman BAKERS favour is that he has gone against all Lib Dem principl;es and actually stated where he stands, albeit against us, as opposed to their usual stance of sitting on the fence and not knowing which way to fall.

If the Tory gets in by supporting Falmer good luck to him. Didnt Ivor Caplin do the same to get elected for Hove. Now conveniently he is not allowed to express an opinion as he is in the government

 

[Strike]

Bye Bye Baker. Everyone vote anyone but do not vote Liberal Democrats, or BNP.

 

[London Irish]

I know this insult gets bandied around a lot but if you're prepared to vote for Baker then you are NOT a true Brighton fan.

Crap, Brovian. The General Election will not be a one-issue referendum of Falmer, it will be deciding whether Albion fans have decent hospitals to go to when they are sick, or decent schools to send their kids to, a decent minimum wage entitlement for those Albion fans unlucky enough to be in low-wage jobs, etc.

Ironically, Baker is on the right side on all those issues and I would have no problem voting for him if I wasn't duty bound to vote Labour as a member of said party. I've fought the sell-out New Labour project from inside the party for the past 10 years and despite its empty promises, it still is the least worst option you will have at the General Election, a sad comment on British politics but true nonetheless.

Look at the big picture. Your Tory vote could send this country back to the pre-WW2 dark ages before we had a welfare state. Wise up.

 

[BensGrandad]

Pity your Tory vote can't bring back Maggie!! She would put BLIAR in his place even more so than Michael Howard.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

If the Lewes result at the next election is swung on a local issue, my guess is that the proposed waste incinerator at Newhaven will be a bigger issue than Falmer.

Two reasons for this ...

1. Waste incineration is a bigger issue for more people;

2. Newhaven is in the Lewes constituency (which is more than the Falmer stadium site is).

Baker is seen as leading the opposition to the incinerator (despite the fact that I once heard him give a speech on why incineration was the only viable solution to the waste disposal issue).

The Tories are seen as pro-incinerator (because they control East Sussex County Council which is backing it).

If and when Tory Rory throws his weight one way or the other on incineration, then I'll start drawing conclusions about how the election will go.

 

[The Large One]

Pity your Tory vote can't bring back Maggie!! She would put BLIAR in his place even more so than Michael Howard.

Maggie would have been Bush's poodle, lap dog AND bitch. She was and is a complete nutter.

Lib Dems don't sit on the fence - infact, they never really did. That was only the perception by the Conservative-controlled media in the 1980s. Since Paddy Ashdown's leadership, they have become a significant minority party in Parliament, and a signifcant force locally, especially in south west England. You can tell this by the way people slag them off, rather than ignore them.

Baker goes against Lib Dem values by not supporting either liberal or democratic policies, e.g. the opposition to Falmer on the whim of a select few.

 

[Jameson]

Baker's policy on just about everything is say no, change nothing. He stated in my local paper that road safety on the A27 could be improved but "not at the cost of the environment..." this just days after 3 people under the age of 30 died in yet another horrible accident. Since then there have been several more accidents on the road to Hell. This is the man that thinks it's OK to leave things as they are for the sake of a few agricultural fields (yes, crop fields, cow field etc...not endangered woodlands, heathland etc..) - sound familiar?

Baker out

 

[Dandyman]

I, respectfully, profoundly disagree. There is no more important issue than Falmer. Yes I know it would be a national election but consituency battles are often fought on local issues. Without Falmer we die, or at very best live on as a glorified non-league club. For me that far, far outweighs Lib Dem v Tory differences on things like the NHS or Immigration.

I know this insult gets bandied around a lot but if you're prepared to vote for Baker then you are NOT a true Brighton fan.

With respect Brovian are you really prepared to vote for some dark ages Tory on the basis that he has made some pro-Falmer noises ? The Tories have always hated football supporters and stereoptyped and abused us throughout the Thatcher and Major years. I am not flying a flag for Baker, although there are a number of issues on which I think he has a decent record, but the idea of voting for some piece of Tory scum who actually has no influence over the Falmer decision anyway turns my guts.

 

[balloonboy]

As promised some time ago, I wrote to Charles Kennedy asking him to support the Falmer issue, and pointing out that although the LibDems in B&H were fully behind Falmer, it was a pity that Norman Baker was taking the opposite view. Here's the very polite response (from a "Leader's Aide"):

"Thank you for your email to Charles Kennedy MP regarding Norman Baker's comments on the proposed football stadium at Falmer. Mr Kennedy has asked me to reply on his behalf and also to apologise for the very long delay in replying.

Whilst Mr Kennedy has noted your concerns, as you may know the Liberal Democrats are a decentralised party and it would therefore be inappropriate for Mr Kennedy to comment on decisions taken by a locally elected representative such as Mr Baker.

However, in order to be of some assistance, I have spoken to Mr Baker who wishes to re-iterate his firm, and consistent, support of the Albion; he has no desire to see the club die as has been reported. However, he does feel trongly that the site at Falmer is not appropriate and hopes that another site will be found in order for the club to prosper."

The only comfort I take from this is that

(a) The issue has come to the attention (albeit v briefly) of Charles Kennedy;
(b) One of CK's aides has had to speak to NB, and no doubt he was slightly annoyed at having to set out his position for the millionth time!

Every little helps

 

[Hunting 784561]

I think what sticks in most peoples throats is the thought that Baker has taken such a high profile media stance against Falmer, when the stadium IS NOT EVEN IN HIS CONSTITUENCY.

Like most liberals he is an interfering old woman, and I hope he gets his arse kicked all the way down Lewes High Street on polling day.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Baker's policy on just about everything is say no, change nothing. He stated in my local paper that road safety on the A27 could be improved but "not at the cost of the environment..." this just days after 3 people under the age of 30 died in yet another horrible accident. Since then there have been several more accidents on the road to Hell. This is the man that thinks it's OK to leave things as they are for the sake of a few agricultural fields (yes, crop fields, cow field etc...not endangered woodlands, heathland etc..) - sound familiar?

Baker out

Baker is absolutely RIGHT about the A27 Polegate - Lewes section. He opposes the only dual carriageway proposal that has ever been put forward for this road - one that builds a new road alongside the existing road and provides no access for local traffic wishing to travel to Lewes.

That scheme would result in 40 per cent of existing traffic being forced to continue to use the existing sub-standard, dangerous road, at higher speeds (because of reduced congestion) - causing accidents at the same black spots as now, and making those accidents MORE dangerous.

In parallel, there'd be a brand new dual carriageway for some drivers, speeding them onwards to an ever-growing traffic queue to get through the Cuilfail Tunnel in Lewes. No overall congestion relief, £100 million+ down the drain, immense environmental damage, and no solution to the road safety issues.

Baker's opposition to this madness wins votes out our way!

(Not mine, though - even when he was my local councillor).

 

[Hunting 784561]

And poor communications including wholly inadequate single lane trunk roads in and around the county is one of main reasons why East Sussex is economically poorer compared to West Sussex, and considerably poorer than the rest of the South East.

 

[Brovion]

London Irish - I would be extremely surprised if a Tory victory in Lewes meant a return to pre-war values, I think you're getting a bit hysterical. (If the Tories win Lewes and subsequently gain power with a one seat majority I admit I will look a bit stupid but I don't think it will happen).

As has been pointed out he is in fact an excellent local MP - his views on 4x4 vehicles on the school run for example are spot on! However he is doing his level best to stop Falmer and I want to pay him back. I've voted Labour (and occasionally I'm ashamed to admit, Green) my entire life (I'm 46) but if I lived in Lewes I would vote Tory with the clearest of consiences, it's only one constituency. However I'm Brighton Pavillion so I guess it's David Lepper (pro-Falmer) for me again.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I, respectfully, profoundly disagree. There is no more important issue than Falmer.

I know this insult gets bandied around a lot but if you're prepared to vote for Baker then you are NOT a true Brighton fan.

Then don't bandy the insult around. As I am a huge Brighton fan you are clearly wrong, so thats that sorted out.

Falmer won't be an issue at the next general election. We'll have the stadium approved by then. If, god forbid, we don't, it won't be because of opposition by a single opposition MP. The Libdems opposed the Iraq war, but we're still there having fun killing and being killed.

So voting Baker out will be just a fit of pique against someone who dared oppose the new stadium plans. One, whats the point, two, its hardly inclusive (Falmer For All anyone?) and three you will let someone in who could potentially damage the way of life in the constituency, or worse let a tory government in that will f*** on us all.

I'm very much pro-environment. I support the LibDems tooth and nail in their opposition to development in protected areas and farmland. I have only supported the Falmer proposals because, well, my love for BHAFC swayed me, because you have all eloquently pointed out the state of the land at the moment and because it is likely going to be de-designated anyway when the national park comes to fruitition.

Finally I don't vote on local issues, I vote on national ones. We have councils for local issues. I strongly hope that the next election sees a hung parliament with a strong libdem component to keep Labour in check.

Finally finally please feel free to vote the way you want, we are a democracy.

 

[The Large One]

Finally I don't vote on local issues, I vote on national ones. We have councils for local issues. I strongly hope that the next election sees a hung parliament with a strong libdem component to keep Labour in check.

Finally finally please feel free to vote the way you want, we are a democracy.

Can't see that happening though. Labour are not going to lose 90+ seats to the Tories. Or rather, (if you see what I mean) the Tories won't gain 90+ seats off Labour. The swing in voting would have to be of such a scale that has NEVER happened before. Even matching the previous most 'violent' swing to the Tories would still result in a Labour majority. And the British people are not HALF as pissed off with this Government as they were with the Tories in the late 80s and into the 90s.

Lib Dems have too much ground to make up to become the official HMG Opposition. They would have to gain at least another 60-70 to get close to the Tories, and what do they have currently? 40? 50? 60?

I personally believe Labour will win the next election, but with a reduced majority of maybe as low as 60. The Tories are still not taken seriously as a Government party - they have too many nutters in the Shadow Cabinet.

 

[Brovion]

Fair points Kally, fair points. I'm afraid I've gone the other way. In the past I've been a member of the Greens, done unpaid work for Greenpeace, contributed to Schnews, done pro-environment gigs etc etc but I'm so incensed by the attitude of Baker and the knee-jerk opposition of the Greens that if there was a proposal to fill Devil's Dyke with high-level radioactive waste I wouldn't raise a finger to stop it.

Petty, spiteful, stupid and vindictive? Moi?

 

[London Irish]

Brovian, we'll be voting the same way and for the same guy at the next General Election, but I do think you underestimate the Tories plans for step-by-step dismantling of the welfare state. With Howard in charge, they are still an ideologically-driven rightwing fright. f***ing scares me anyway, but The Large One is right, they are unlikely to win. But I think they will make a respectable recovery from the Hague result because disillusionment in New Labour will be far advanced from 2001.

This, ironically, will probably be what kills Baker's career. A swing to the Tories will leave him very vulnerable, and although local issues will have some play as Lord B has argued, the national swing will be what moves more votes in Lewes constituency.

I know I'm in a minority on that, but I view Baker's opposition to Falmer more in sorrow than anger. It's a shame he chose to jump the way he did, he was too quick to pigeonhole Falmer as an environmental/conservation issue rather than as a community pride/jobs/leisure enhancement one. Once on that course, he was never going to budge.

I do hope he survives the Tory onslaught at the General Election because he has been a very effective critic of New Labour and Parliament is a better place with him in it.

The perfect scenario for me would be that he continues at MP for Lewes, has to watch while Falmer is built and begins operating successfully, and then has to come out and publicly admit: "I was wrong."

 

[Mr C]

I must admit if I were able to vote in Lewes I am not sure how much weight I would actually put on the Falmer issue. As has been stated several times, by the time the election comes around, Falmer will have been decided one way or another anyway. Although a big issue to us, it's down to JP now and no voting either way is going to change that.

There are far bigger issues that elections should be fought and won on, and with a bit of common sense and a fair wind, we'll hopefully have a Conservative government back in power before too long. As the stadium will have already been sorted out, it doesn't make any difference who we have in power after the next general election as far as BHAFC is concerned. For the wellbeing and sanity of this country though, that's a different matter entirely.