[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[nevergoagain]

Nice headline but it’s only a 4% pay rise.

A bit disingenuous. 4% backdated for 23/24, on top of the 9% they've already received and another 8% in place for next year but already whinging about possible further strikes.

 

[nevergoagain]

Whilst Wes "Billy Liar" Streeting is completing victory laps at sorting out the junior doctor strikes, the head of the junior doctors was being interviewed on 5Live this morning.

We already know that further strikes are possible in six months time, should the doctors not be granted an additional inflation-beating pay rise, but I was surprised to hear him describe "the arrogance of this government" in relation to nurses, before talking about how Labour changes in 2008 introduced massive inefficiencies to all department in all hospitals that still persist, and it would be good for them to put that right.

It didn't strike me that Wes Streeting would be on his Christmas card list.

Streeting is a horrible smarmy piece of work. Those old tweets of his about pushing someone under a train are disgraceful, can you imagine the furore if he'd been blue instead of red from our resident Starministas.

 

[Machiavelli]

That's ok then, there was me thinking we couldn't afford it.

You don't seem to like workers getting deals that begin to claw back the huge sums they've lost over the past 14 years. Unless you've got private medical insurance, you might find that you're increasingly dependent on junior doctors, who are leaving for better deals elsewhere.

 

[nevergoagain]

You don't seem to like workers getting deals that begin to claw back the huge sums they've lost over the past 14 years. Unless you've got private medical insurance, you might find that you're increasingly dependent on junior doctors, who are leaving for better deals elsewhere.

Where do we stop? and at what cost ?. Junior doctors have got theirs, but still saying they will demand more, GP's now threatening to strike. Then you move out of NHS to other public sectors and see the train drivers getting theirs so Mick Lynch will want the same for the rest of his mob. Border force already striking how long until the Police, bin men, civil servants etc. all decide they are going to as well. Who's going to say who is and isn't worthy of getting an inflation busting rise and how do we pay for it.

 

[Weststander]

A bit disingenuous. 4% backdated for 23/24, on top of the 9% they've already received and another 8% in place for next year but already whinging about possible further strikes.

Post #1992 shows the actual pay increases.

 

[Weststander]

You don't seem to like workers getting deals that begin to claw back the huge sums they've lost over the past 14 years. Unless you've got private medical insurance, you might find that you're increasingly dependent on junior doctors, who are leaving for better deals elsewhere.

And their case was very deserving. Anyone who’s spent time with family or themselves in hospital, can see how hard these highly skilled people work, over long hours.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Oh well, out of the frying pan into another frying pan.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Old Pottymouth won't be happy with this.

Rachel Reeves beats Angela Rayner in battle for Dorneywood country pile​

Chancellor to to have use of the grace-and-favour Georgian mansion, rather than Deputy Prime Minister, in break with recent Labour tradition.

 

[pocketseagull]

The move is a break from Labour tradition, owing to the fact that John Prescott, the then deputy prime minister, was allowed access to the 21-room mansion over Gordon Brown, the former chancellor.

Giving Prescott the keys was the break in tradition, only on that occasion has Labour given the deputy PM residence. Either The Telegraph is very sloppy or deliberately riling up people who won't ever bother to check.

 

[Weststander]

Giving Prescott the keys was the break in tradition, only on that occasion has Labour given the deputy PM residence. Either The Telegraph is very sloppy or deliberately riling up people who won't ever bother to check.

With a great left jab .

 

[LamieRobertson]

And their case was very deserving. Anyone who’s spent time with family or themselves in hospital, can see how hard these highly skilled people work, over long hours.

I’m sure you are right …slightly off topic ..unfortunately my experience with Junior Doctors (they need to change that as some are clearly not ‘Junior’)…wasnt brilliantly positive..it was at the time when my Dad spent 2 months in hospital prior to his passing….each week a new doctor on the ward…each week being asked the same questions ….some of which were on the ‘health CV’ I had given them (to help) …when i had the temerity to question why they asked me the same questions about my Dad week after week the Doctor put the phone down …there was a little too much tick box exercise going on imo… maybe not the people but the system.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Labours PR is currently laughable, did someone not think to have a word with her about not going

Victoria Starmer wears polka dot outfit to London Fashion Week as PM faces questions over clothing donations

Keir Starmer's wife Victoria has been pictured wearing a polka dot dress to London Fashion Week amid a row over donations of thousands of pounds worth of clothing from a prominent Labour supporter.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Peteinblack]

Where do we stop? and at what cost ?. Junior doctors have got theirs, but still saying they will demand more, GP's now threatening to strike. Then you move out of NHS to other public sectors and see the train drivers getting theirs so Mick Lynch will want the same for the rest of his mob. Border force already striking how long until the Police, bin men, civil servants etc. all decide they are going to as well. Who's going to say who is and isn't worthy of getting an inflation busting rise and how do we pay for it.

Yet as ever, you never seem to object to the £ millions regularly paid to corporate bosses and shareholders. Bosses paid £ millions, but it's doctors, train drivers, refuse collectors, and the police who you accuse of being greedy.

Chairman of Tesco recently had his pay doubled to £10 million, while train drivers see their salaries increased (in some cases) to £65,000 - but its the train drivers, not the Tesco boss, who are denounced as greedy and selfish!

Tories really do despise ordinary working people; the proles should be seen, but not heard, and certainly not expect to enjoy pay rises which are only a fraction of what their bosses are regularly awarded.

Tesco boss's pay more than doubles to £10m

Ken Murphy's package includes a pay-out from shares awarded after he joined the supermarket giant.

www.bbc.co.uk

UK rail operator Govia awards $79m in dividends amid UK rail dissatisfaction

The dividends at UK rail operator Govia came despite recent challenges to the UK rail sector, including widespread passenger dissatisfaction.

www.railway-technology.com

Big firm bosses' pay rose 16% as workers squeezed

Analysis from the High Pay Centre suggests the average pay of a FTSE 100 boss was £3.91m last year.

www.bbc.co.uk

UK CEO Salaries: Highest-Paid Bosses Revealed For 2024

We break down CEO earnings in the UK, including the types of compensation received, and how CEO income compares to the average worker.

startups.co.uk

FTSE 100 chief executive pay at record high

Median pay for a FTSE 100 chief executive was £4.19m in 2023, up from £4.1m in 2022 - a 2.2% increase, according to new research.

news.sky.com

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/firstgroup-abellio-rail-strikes-rmt-shareholders-payout/

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

Supermarket bosses paid up to 229 times more than workers - see how they compare

Staff at some major UK supermarket chains have received a few pay rises over the last year but how does that compare to the big bosses paychecks?

www.mirror.co.uk

FTSE 100 bosses earn UK average salary in three days, says High Pay Centre

Bosses of the biggest firms will earn more than the typical worker by Thursday lunchtime, research claims.

www.bbc.co.uk

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

Top bosses’ pay reaches ‘eye-watering’ high

The median pay of FTSE 100 CEOs reached £4.19 million last year, the highest level on record, up

www.lrd.org.uk

 

[nevergoagain]

And their case was very deserving. Anyone who’s spent time with family or themselves in hospital, can see how hard these highly skilled people work, over long hours.

I don't disagree on how hard they work, they most certainly do. Post #1992 I think shows that the increases range from 24.6% to 20.5%. I believe that is baseline pay only and given they are doctors do need to work lates/overtime/weekends. A 37% enhancement for working nights, a weekend working allowance, an on call allowance and obviously overtime for anything over the 40 hours basic. Not saying these additional payments aren't required but must be expected to work nights/weekends given the nature of the job. Would be interesting to see some examples of actual pay including these additional allowances over the basic pay scales.

 

[nevergoagain]

Yet as ever, you never seem to object to the £ millions regularly paid to corporate bosses and shareholders. Bosses paid £ millions, but it's doctors, train drivers, refuse collectors, and the police who you accuse of being greedy.

Chairman of Tesco recently had his pay doubled to £10 million, while train drivers see their salaries increased (in some cases) to £65,000 - but its the train drivers, not the Tesco boss, who are denounced as greedy and selfish!

Tories really do despise ordinary working people; the proles should be seen, but not heard, and certainly not expect to enjoy pay rises which are only a fraction of what their bosses are regularly awarded.

Tesco boss's pay more than doubles to £10m

Ken Murphy's package includes a pay-out from shares awarded after he joined the supermarket giant.

www.bbc.co.uk

UK rail operator Govia awards $79m in dividends amid UK rail dissatisfaction

The dividends at UK rail operator Govia came despite recent challenges to the UK rail sector, including widespread passenger dissatisfaction.

www.railway-technology.com

Big firm bosses' pay rose 16% as workers squeezed

Analysis from the High Pay Centre suggests the average pay of a FTSE 100 boss was £3.91m last year.

www.bbc.co.uk

UK CEO Salaries: Highest-Paid Bosses Revealed For 2024

We break down CEO earnings in the UK, including the types of compensation received, and how CEO income compares to the average worker.

startups.co.uk

FTSE 100 chief executive pay at record high

Median pay for a FTSE 100 chief executive was £4.19m in 2023, up from £4.1m in 2022 - a 2.2% increase, according to new research.

news.sky.com

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/firstgroup-abellio-rail-strikes-rmt-shareholders-payout/

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

Supermarket bosses paid up to 229 times more than workers - see how they compare

Staff at some major UK supermarket chains have received a few pay rises over the last year but how does that compare to the big bosses paychecks?

www.mirror.co.uk

FTSE 100 bosses earn UK average salary in three days, says High Pay Centre

Bosses of the biggest firms will earn more than the typical worker by Thursday lunchtime, research claims.

www.bbc.co.uk

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

Top bosses’ pay reaches ‘eye-watering’ high

The median pay of FTSE 100 CEOs reached £4.19 million last year, the highest level on record, up

www.lrd.org.uk

That's a lot of examples, many thanks but I see what your really getting at is that you don't like people becoming successful and wealthy. If they get promoted to a job where they are responsible for a mind boggling turnover and in your Tescos example 300k+ employees then they absolutely should be earning top dollar. It's the way of the world whether you like it or not but it's private sector and really nothing to do with you and I. Public sector is though, as we directly fund everything through our taxes, if there was a huge surplus of cash then yes I'd support wage increases but there's not. There is a mammoth amount of wastage and never ending red tape that paralyses our public sector (and private too) if we addressed those then perhaps we could offer better pay to those who serve us.

 

[Weststander]

I don't disagree on how hard they work, they most certainly do. Post #1992 I think shows that the increases range from 24.6% to 20.5%. I believe that is baseline pay only and given they are doctors do need to work lates/overtime/weekends. A 37% enhancement for working nights, a weekend working allowance, an on call allowance and obviously overtime for anything over the 40 hours basic. Not saying these additional payments aren't required but must be expected to work nights/weekends given the nature of the job. Would be interesting to see some examples of actual pay including these additional allowances over the basic pay scales.

For the wider discussion, I think they should work fewer hours. Quality of life and mistakes are less likely.

With the drain of junior doctors to other countries after very expensive training, unlike ASLEF, imho the junior doctors were a very deserving case. These are highly skilled people working in a stressful environment, their decisions/skills save lives.

 

[LamieRobertson]

That's a lot of examples, many thanks but I see what your really getting at is that you don't like people becoming successful and wealthy. If they get promoted to a job where they are responsible for a mind boggling turnover and in your Tescos example 300k+ employees then they absolutely should be earning top dollar. It's the way of the world whether you like it or not but it's private sector and really nothing to do with you and I. Public sector is though, as we directly fund everything through our taxes, if there was a huge surplus of cash then yes I'd support wage increases but there's not. There is a mammoth amount of wastage and never ending red tape that paralyses our public sector (and private too) if we addressed those then perhaps we could offer better pay to those who serve us.

Oh i dunno….that Lord Alli chap is worth a few bob ..i bet he likes him

 

[nevergoagain]

For the wider discussion, I think they should work fewer hours. Quality of life and mistakes are less likely.

With the drain of junior doctors to other countries after very expensive training, unlike ASLEF, imho the junior doctors were a very deserving case. These are highly skilled people working in a stressful environment, their decisions/skills save lives.

I agree, quality of life absolutely should be utmost in thinking. Silly thing is if we could train/recruit more JD's then they could work those extra hours at their basic rate thus actually saving us money longer term. You can't blame them for going abroad or just as likely into private healthcare as you go where the pay takes you but as things stand we just cannot afford that without raising taxes. Is there a way we could poach JD's from other countries as others do to us?, there's a moral question to that I think as we'd be taking doctors away from poorer countries but I doubt very much we are that close to the bottom of state medical wage payers globally.

 

[beorhthelm]

For the wider discussion, I think they should work fewer hours. Quality of life and mistakes are less likely.

With the drain of junior doctors to other countries after very expensive training, unlike ASLEF, imho the junior doctors were a very deserving case. These are highly skilled people working in a stressful environment, their decisions/skills save lives.

wouldn't that make their training take longer, to cover similar experience? they are paid additional for those hours too, the dispute mis-represented that, giving the first year basic pay without the shift and unsocial hours extras. and they go in eyes wide open, with ambitions of several decades career, taking on additional work, research etc. to pursue professional specialism.

 

[Weststander]

I agree, quality of life absolutely should be utmost in thinking. Silly thing is if we could train/recruit more JD's then they could work those extra hours at their basic rate thus actually saving us money longer term. You can't blame them for going abroad or just as likely into private healthcare as you go where the pay takes you but as things stand we just cannot afford that without raising taxes. Is there a way we could poach JD's from other countries as others do to us?, there's a moral question to that I think as we'd be taking doctors away from poorer countries but I doubt very much we are that close to the bottom of state medical wage payers globally.

On that last point, isn't there an NHS/immigration safeguard so that we don't strip medics from developing nations where they're very much needed? I heard on R4 I think that there is e.g. The Philippines deliberately train too many, in the knowledge that they work overseas to send money home to family.