[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[LamieRobertson]

I hope it’s a quick commission, then action. These things eg the Blood and PO enquiries can take a lifetime.

Would love Mr & Mrs Mone to go through hell. More importantly, for OUR money to flow back.

The Tories are finished for a long time anyway imho. Famous last words. I can only see a comeback if Starmer/Reeves/Streeting/Cooper face 5 years of hell from fifth columnists such as Owen Jones, Coogan, Mick Lynch who set out to derail and get somewhere.

Quite ..the only people who seem to be gaining out of the current covid enquiry are those from the legal profession earning mega bucks

 

[LamieRobertson]

Just to lighten things up a tad ..this should tickle most posters soh

 

[Zeberdi]

Yes, the answer to my own question about India is, from my perspective, that Indians are “brown” and Jews are “not”.

Plus a whole heap of unpleasant online tropes and conspiracy theories.

What an unpleasant discussion this turned into.

The whataboutery on this thread about Kashmir and why we aren’t up in arms about that too in this Country just attempts to minimise the inhumanity being thrusted upon innocent civilians of Gaza and the West Bank.

To suggest my interest, anyone’s interest, in what is going on Israel is because Jews are white also ignores the very significant number of Jews that are non-white or are multi-racial. It sidesteps also the fact our elected Government is supporting a hard right extremist leader who will never accept justice for the Palestinian people and that continues to licence the export of weapons from the UK to assist in their slaughter.

 

[armchairclubber]

The skit was quite funny when I saw it several days ago @LamieRobertson.

But it really belongs on another thread.

This is the Labour Meltdown thread, just waiting for it to be changed from incoming to arrived.

 

[LamieRobertson]

edited

 

[LamieRobertson]

The above was quite funny when I saw it several days ago @LamieRobertson.

But it really belongs on another thread.

This is the Labour Meltdown thread, just waiting for it to be changed from incoming to arrived.

You may have a point there…but I posted it as a (maybe poor) attempt to move on from the current fisticuffs…..still I can see from the post that followed that I failed miserably

 

[Boys 9d]

Are the people who claim that Arabs are racially semitic wrong? If so what is their true racial grouping?

 

[Weststander]

Perhaps @Guinness Boy should be commended for recognising all genocides, racism and terrorism. Commended for mentioning such stuff, when a bullying section of the UK simply won’t counternance any talk of other violence, terrorism, mass murder and rape. We cannot shut down or swamp wider discussion. This would include overt racist tropes and intimdation in the UK pre the invasion of Gaza. I don’t think GB is posting in bad faith, I recall his story back in the autumn of a scared local girl who’d done nothing wrong other than having an unpopular ethnicity.

 

[Zeberdi]

And the complete lack of interest in the genocide of the (Muslim) Uyghurs in China, little interest in fascist Putin waging an illegal war and carrying out atrocities in Ukraine.

For the crinkly old hard left, it’s a very selective moral code they can’t cleanse themself of from the Cold War. The Soviets/Putin, they’re alright, let’s hate the West and World Jewry instead. With a new racist age group who just can’t bring themself to feel for Muslims in India and China. Weird.

However much you dress it up or down though, both Ukraine and Israel are major threats to world peace right now and both have been declared as being in a state of genocide emergency - Kashmir, the Tibitans, Myamar, and numerous other areas of the world on genocide watch or warnings or genocide emergency - but there is evidence that Israel is a possibly carrying out a genocide that the UK is directly complicit in enabling by supplying weapons and Russia carrying out genocide in Ukraine that the UK is directly complicit in not supplying enough weapons to prevent.

Genocide Watch- Countries at Risk

Genocide Watch issues countries at risk reports for various countries around the world in danger of mass killing or genocide.

www.genocidewatch.com

Kier Starmer needs to sort out what the Labour Party defines as antisemitism - it needs to clarify it‘s position on Israel to its members - many of whom are still to the left of Starmer ( including myself) and the leadership need to make it clear whether or not we are planning for NATO forces to intervene more directly in Ukraine.

It’s all very well keeping quiet in opposition to avoid losing votes but the next Government of the UK will be facing the worst global security issues since the Second World War.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Perhaps @Guinness Boy should be commended for recognising all genocides, racism and terrorism. Commended for mentioning such stuff, when a bullying section of the UK simply won’t counternance any talk of other violence, terrorism, mass murder and rape. We cannot shut down or swamp wider discussion. This would include overt racist tropes and intimdation in the UK pre the invasion of Gaza. I don’t think GB is posting in bad faith, I recall his story back in the autumn of a scared local girl who’d done nothing wrong other than having an unpopular ethnicity.

Totally agree

 

[Weststander]

However much you dress it up or down though, both Ukraine and Israel are major threats to world peace right now and both have been declared as being in a state of genocide emergency - Kashmir, the Tibitans, Myamar, and numerous other areas of the world on genocide watch or warnings or genocide emergency - but there is evidence that Israel is a possibly carrying out a genocide that the UK is directly complicit in enabling by supplying weapons and Russia carrying out genocide in Ukraine that the UK is directly complicit in not supplying enough weapons to prevent.

Genocide Watch- Countries at Risk

Genocide Watch issues countries at risk reports for various countries around the world in danger of mass killing or genocide.

www.genocidewatch.com

Kier Starmer needs to sort out what the Labour Party defines as antisemitism - it needs to clarify it‘s position on Israel to its members - many of whom are still to the left of Starmer ( including myself) and the leadership need to make it clear whether or not we are planning for NATO forces to intervene more directly in Ukraine.

It’s all very well keeping quiet in opposition to avoid losing votes but the next Government of the UK will be facing the worst global security issues since the Second World War.

No underplaying from me. But perhaps I’m in a minority.

The average Brit or Westerner I suspect is more interested in some hedondism, the best patio heater, beers etc … than the Uyghurs or Putin’s murderers digging pits for mass murder. Next to no interest.

Yes, very dangerous times. Netanyahu has played into the hands of Putin and Iran.

 

[Zeberdi]

Perhaps @Guinness Boy should be commended for recognising all genocides, racism and terrorism. Commended for mentioning such stuff, when a bullying section of the UK simply won’t counternance any talk of other violence, terrorism, mass murder and rape. We cannot shut down or swamp wider discussion. This would include overt racist tropes and intimdation in the UK pre the invasion of Gaza. I don’t think GB is posting in bad faith, I recall his story back in the autumn of a scared local girl who’d done nothing wrong other than having an unpopular ethnicity.

Perhaps you should be a bit clearer who your comments are directed at - you’ve mentioned one poster by name on this thread, maybe mention the ones you are referring to who you think are part of the ‘bullying section of the UK that won’t countenance other violence, terrorism, mass murder and rape‘ - sounds like yet another trope criticising those on the Israel thread for not preceding every comment at about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians with how heinous Hamas’ attack on Israel was last year.

Or if that isn’t what you meant, at least stop conflating caring about what happens to Palestinians with not giving a shit about anywhere else in the world.

I am not posting on bad faith either.

PS I’m not going to commend someone who insults the one person on this thread who has admitted to being a victim of antisemitism by suggesting they don’t know what it means.

Yes, very dangerous times. Netanyahu has played into the hands of Putin and Iran.

Netanyahu hasn’t played into anyone’s hands - its not all about Ukraine and Russia - Bibi is his own agent and knows exactly what he is doing in Gaza and Israel - he’s a facist twunt that doesn’t give a damn about the hostages or Palestinian kids he’s ordering to be killed.

Nor do I accept being repeatedly accused of not caring for Ukraine.

Im done here.

 

[Weststander]

Perhaps you should be a bit clearer who your comments are directed at - you’ve mentioned one poster by name on this thread, maybe mention the ones you are referring to who you think are part of the ‘bullying section of the UK that won’t countenance other violence, terrorism, mass murder and rape‘ - sounds like yet another trope criticising those on the Israel thread for not preceding every comment at about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians with how heinous Hamas’ attack on Israel was last year.

Or if that isn’t what you meant, at least stop conflating caring about what happens to Palestinians with not giving a shit about anywhere else in the world.

I am not posting on bad faith either.

I’m not making this personal, I’ve no one in mind. I’ll leave to you and others here who get their hackles up with personalised feuds.

I’m referring to a movement in general where just one conflict or illegal war is the only subject up for discussion. I’ve had amicable real world discussions with people who feel that way. They admit to having no interest in the Uyghurs or Ukraine. (Long before October I posted about them here, the former was never, ever of interest!). Countless men murdered, women mass raped on an industrial scale by non-muslim Chinese.

Don’t attempt to turn this into a battle against me too with essays, I won’t read them. Instead I’ll have a sensible discussion with anyone who has an open mind.

 

[chip]

That’s the point I am making.

Yes. I remember one of my professors saying something alongh the lines of "It's like pornography. You know it's pornography when you see it but it's not possible to accurately define it such that everyone will agree". We were talking about beta cells in mice.

Suggesting that a Jewish person is an apologist for terrorists that have the destruction of Israel as an ideology- that’s antisemitic.

Not sure I agree with that as a general proposition because it is perfectly possible and thus a reasonable statement. A Jewish person could be an appologist in a Lord Haw Haw way. But, I expect that is what someone has said to you - your point about context.

There is no one on the forum that expresses the same views as I do

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What an unpleasant discussion this turned into.

The whataboutery on this thread about Kashmir and why we aren’t up in arms about that too in this Country just attempts to minimise the inhumanity being thrusted upon innocent civilians of Gaza and the West Bank.

To suggest my interest, anyone’s interest, in what is going on Israel is because Jews are white also ignores the very significant number of Jews that are non-white or are multi-racial. It sidesteps also the fact our elected Government is supporting a hard right extremist leader who will never accept justice for the Palestinian people and that continues to licence the export of weapons from the UK to assist in their slaughter.

You challenge me (someone who has been frequently targeted with antisemitism ) on whether I understand what it is which is insulting in itself - you then make a follow up sarcastic comment that implied I was not able to answer your question without talking about Israel ( another reference to the Israel thread presumably) - again conflating my understanding of antisemitism with my vocal support of the Palestinian people on the Israel thread .

You complain that the internet is full of online tropes and conspiracy theories instead of people actually raising the issues and debating them properly yet you ignore comments from those who can debate the issues with an informed opinion and instead peddle tropes and conspiracy theories of your own.

I once respected your views on Israel and Jewish people vis a vis the war in Gaza, I once thought you understood the nuances and complexities involved both in the debate around the war in Gaza and the Jewish identity as well as the humanitarian crisis that is turning into full blown famine and very possibly the end of Gaza as a Palestinian territory.

Not any more.

Anyone that can use the horrendous sufferings of the Palestinian people, the very serious issues surrounding a lack of shared understanding of antisemitism to deliberately mock and bait people with on a football forum for your own amusement doesn’t deserve my respect.

I think you're letting your general antipathy towards GB to fuel a disagreement that doesn't exist. WRT GB:

Is he anti Israel? Nope
Is he pro Trump? Nope
Is he anti-Semitic? Nope
Is he anti-Palestinians? Nope
Is he interested in beating you up on NSC? Nope
Is he challenging you about what Anti-Semitism means? Nope
Is he an old pal of mine who I trust and respect? Yep.
Can he be fierce, and irritable, and impatient? Certainly.

Is it possible to identify a malign narrative from the 'pen' of GB? Of course it is
Is it possible to weave a malign narrative about anything if one selects, and re-orders? Yep.

There are people who are a problem, and there are a people who one can, should, feel are part of 'the team'.
Some things are not worth arguing about. Loose lips don't always sink ships.
Some people should not have to have their posts repeatedly subjected to a forensic autopsy.
(that includes you and your posts, but as with me and my posts, that is another conversation, and I dislike conflation)

I'm tired of trying to help you avoid getting distressed needlessly, only for you to get distressed needlessly again and again. For my own peace of mind I'm putting you on ignore for a bit.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Perhaps you should be a bit clearer who your comments are directed at - you’ve mentioned one poster by name on this thread, maybe mention the ones you are referring to who you think are part of the ‘bullying section of the UK that won’t countenance other violence, terrorism, mass murder and rape‘ - sounds like yet another trope criticising those on the Israel thread for not preceding every comment at about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians with how heinous Hamas’ attack on Israel was last year.

Or if that isn’t what you meant, at least stop conflating caring about what happens to Palestinians with not giving a shit about anywhere else in the world.

I am not posting on bad faith either.

PS I’m not going to commend someone who insults the one person on this thread who has admitted to being a victim of antisemitism by suggesting they don’t know what it means.

Nor do I accept being repeatedly accused of not caring for Ukraine.

Im done here.

And piling into @Weststander is something else that makes me sigh.

I like to read what he posts and think about it and I will often learn something.

 

[Zeberdi]

I think you're letting your general antipathy towards GB to fuel a disagreement that doesn't exist. WRT GB:

What general antipathy?!

Only yesterday I defended the man - and ended up being attacked and put on ignore by the person that was criticising him for my efforts!

I am really tired of being told (by you also) that I shouldn’t get upset when people call me a racist or antisemitic or an apologist for terrorism or accuse me of taking over, crushing debate or thinking I’m better than anyone else because I’m Jewish, or being called a fcuking liar for saying my niece was in tears over Brexit (of all the ridiculous things to accuse me of lying about.

Knocky1, @Bakero, and myself and others have had endless laughter emoji’s plastered over our posts on the Israel thread for the past 6 months and this is why apparently…

I use them when obsessive Antisemites post cynical, post truth rubbish. It seems appropriate

if people can’t understand how such a casual misappropriation of antisemitism is deeply upsetting and offensive (especially to someone who is Jewish) then there are more morons on this site than I realised

As for your flounce at me - seriously - ? Given our private communications over recent months (I have also helped you by listening to your issues about other posters and work etc btw ) your flounce was deliberately designed to be a public put down and puff yourself up at my expense - You could have messaged me privately or just put me on ignore without the fcuking dramatic announcement.

Meltdown?

Yes?

 

[nevergoagain]

Sorry to intrude on your lefty squabbling but to get the thread back on track, I see Vaughan Gething took £200k to fund his first minister campaign from a company linked to environmental crimes. Labour sleaze, they are all the same!.

 

[abc]

Racism, intolerance, and bigotry is wrong.

There is no latitude or grey area. I am shocked how some on this thread (and other threads have gone the same way) appear to believe the opposite when it comes to anti semitism and in a way I don’t think they would countenance if the topic was about colour or sexual preference.

Maybe time for a little self reflection?

 

[armchairclubber]

Racism, intolerance, and bigotry is wrong.

There is no latitude or grey area. I am shocked how some on this thread (and other threads have gone the same way) appear to believe the opposite when it comes to anti semitism and in a way I don’t think they would countenance if the topic was about colour or sexual preference.

Maybe time for a little self reflection?

Yes, I think you should.

I don't think you should come on here and make claims of anti semitism without being specific.