Labour in deep shit

[Highfields Seagull]

Surely it is also a democratic right, if you are satisfied with none of the candidates, to vote for none of the candidates.

If voting was compulsory, it would still be easy not to vote, for instance by spoiling your ballot paper.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Inspired me to research - pay is 56k. Pension is final salary with 9% contributory. An 'additional costs allowance' of 20k apparently payable towards rent for those MP's out of London. An Office allowance of 70k (most Tories use this to employ their wives/'friends' as researchers). Driving allowance of 56p a mile. All in all a pretty good deal - I would do it.

And Chairmans of House of Commons Select Committees do not get paid - it has been proposed but is still not in place.

 

[tedebear]

but isn't democracy the vote of the (all) people? true if you felt that you didn't want to vote for anyone you could vote donkey ( ir spoil your ballot paper) but in my opinion if you don't vote you aren't entitled to moan!!

 

[Highfields Seagull]

but isn't democracy the vote of the (all) people? true if you felt that you didn't want to vote for anyone you could vote donkey ( ir spoil your ballot paper) but in my opinion if you don't vote you aren't entitled to moan!!

I guess not voting is a vote for no-one in a way. I agree though that if you don't vote you shouldn't really complain.

Perhaps more people would vote is their vote actually meant something - for instance if we had a proportional representation style of election system. At the moment, a vote for say, the Lib Dems in a very strong labour constituency at a general election counts for pretty much nothing.

I'm not surprised Tony Blair has backed away from the idea given that he's getting such large majorities under first past the post.

However, if I was him (or perhaps Gordon in a few years time) I might change the election system in the run up to a general election it looked like Labour would lose. Cynical I know - but that's how politics is.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I do not and never have read the Daily Mail. I think this government have been the most dissapointing government ever elected after the initial expectations in May 1997 when Blair arrived at Downing Street with 1000's of Joe public waving union jacks after 18 years of Tory rule. My parents who I watched it with were weeping with joy literally.

What has he or the Governemtn delivered:

Education - No
NHS - No
Services - No
Crime - No

Can anyone mention 1 thing, just 1 thing they have done that has benefitted us rather than say " we will not increases taxes " and then bring in 60 stealth taxes, milk the motorists.

They just go after the honest hardworking people and fleece them as its easier.

They have been a total disgrace.

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

There should always be an option for 'none of the above'.

It wouldn't serve any real purpose other than giving a reflection of people's dissatisfaction with the few candidates on offer.

 

[Highfields Seagull]

Can anyone mention 1 thing, just 1 thing they have done that has benefitted us rather than say " we will not increases taxes " and then bring in 60 stealth taxes, milk the motorists.

Class sizes in schools are, on average, lower than in 1997.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I totally agree about compulsory attendance on polling day (or by post, email, or whatever else). If you then choose to exercise your democratic right to spoil your ballot paper, fine. But when people have died in this country (and still are in other countries) to get the vote, it does seem a bit bizarre to fine people for parking their car in the wrong place, and not for failing to participate in electing a government to run the country.

 

[Highfields Seagull]

What is the difference between spoiling your ballot paper to register a non-vote, and not voting to register a non-vote?

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

one is signalling your disapproval with the process - the other is pure apathy or laziness.

 

[chip]

Lets face it most politicians are in it for themselves in some way and party politics seems to focus that on the agenda of the party leaders. This may, of course, not be the same agenda that they were elected on. In 1997, about 7 former presidents of the National Union of Students became MPs. All of them had campained against student loans etc while at the NUS, but all of them voted for the introduction of fees. Part of the problem it seems to me is that being a politician has become a career choice and in furthering ones own career they inevitably loose sight of their actual purpose. Unlike club managers, they don't get sacked when it looks like they are getting into trouble though they seem to have the same loyalty as people like Pardew.

I also think that they should not be paid (or at most a nominal payment) and that there are too many of them. But then, what do I care I gave up voting in 1992 as I want nothing to do with that system.

 

[Worthing Keith at Work]

Well said Gareth - I couldn't have put it better myself.

This government have merely maintained the economy that they inherited (the best for an incoming government since the war by the way) and have put more spin on everything than Mushy.

It's just a shame there's no opposition at the moment - bring back Thatch.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Can anyone mention 1 thing, just 1 thing they have done that has benefitted us

There's now a national minimum wage. But it isn't high enough. And not everybody gets it.

Still wouldn't vote for the bastards though. I'm pretty much a Lib Dem voter now (Bellotti excepted).

I'm interested how many people have said "we must vote Labour, to get Falmer." The decision's now totally out of the council's hands. And yes, Two Jags is a Labour MP but his decision as Sec of State will, in reality, be made by some civil servants at the ODPM and he'll rubber-stamp it. Football has always been an important political issue to me, but has never (except on the one occasion when I was asked to vote for Bellotti) actually influenced the way I vote.

 

[looney]

Tedebear is wrong.

I had a similar row about economics.

Me: I making a rating system 1 to 10

Him: That wont work as some people refuse to give 10 out of 10 for anything as a point of principle.

Me: In that case what they are saying is that nothing is perfect, I personnaly am not prepared to argue with them and I dont see how there obstinant stance is invalid. Its a signal of Information like other preference levels.

Him: Whimper


Ok so he didn't start wimpering but I think that if given a choice of eating shit or dirt some people prefer to starve for a while.

Oh and you failed to enlightten everyone about the Alphabet voter in your gay PR system.

 

[tedebear]

Voting isn't asking everyone to chose a perfect outcome? Its asking them to chose from the available options - if they feel so strongly about not voting then the question is why - and what are they going to do about it...

sitting on my hands because I don't want to get involved is not a socially responsible option...

how is that relevant?

 

[Mr Popkins]

surely ,forcing people to vote, is un-democratic,?

 

[tedebear]

so how can we have a democratically elected government if people don't vote? you have a government elected to rule the people based on a select few who vote?

 

[Highfields Seagull]

so how can we have a democratically elected government if people don't vote? you have a government elected to rule the people based on a select few who vote?

And therefore, those that don't vote - tough luck. They had the chance to vote and exercised their democratic right not to.

 

[looney]

Voting isn't asking everyone to chose a perfect outcome? Its asking them to chose from the available options - if they feel so strongly about not voting then the question is why - and what are they going to do about it...

sitting on my hands because I don't want to get involved is not a socially responsible option...

how is that relevant?

Choose

1 I rape you
2 I beat you to death.


You may think thats an exstreme example but What would you say to people who live in countries in Europe that only face pro-EU parties.

In fact in a draft document by the EU that involved state funding parties they were only prepared to recognise parties that consider the EU legitamate.

This is not an exception either, cant remember details but one commie country held an election with one party on the ballot paper.

Your assumption is that "there must be a party that represents your veiws".

Well tell me who I should vote for, I'm not voting for a Pro-europarty*, a racist one or a left wing one.

This leaves me with the natural law party, The monster raving looney party and UKIP.
If UKip was banned tell me how I'm responsible for voting for the other 2?


*This includes the tories

 

[looney]

so how can we have a democratically elected government if people don't vote? you have a government elected to rule the people based on a select few who vote?

The select few in the uk is still over 25% at least.

Dont you think that people are aware that if they dont vote then the election is left to others?

Or do you think people think "well if I dont vote there wont be a government", dont be so arrogant.