[Politics] Jacinda Arden

[sydney]

Ok - and that changes my point. How?

5 million reasonably fit people who have been eating unprocessed food until about 50 years ago , putting it in a nutshell fit as **** and hard as **** , cleanest land mass on the planet , no 22 floor , shit stained tower blocks over there mate , honestly i am ashamed at how dumb some of you lot are.(English)

3.2 million in 1988 ....someones on to something ....eh...?

 

[Billy the Fish]

But even then, I think it sounded better than here (the UK) for the most part.

Of course it sounds like that, because it was!

Nobody is trying to argue that we handled it better, simply that NZ has some huge geographical advantages over Europe.

It's the using of NZ to indulge in UK bashing that I take issue with. If people are going to do that, surely they have to also compare the rest of Europe and that has really been much of a muchness.

 

[sydney]

Both ends of the COVID spectrum are hard. Saving lives now against saving an economy later, both have expensive price tags.

my attitude is bring it the **** on , you can't live the rest of your life pissing yourself indoors.....i'm happy to get it and move on , both my parents are dead....i have no one to kill , if you believe the MSBS out there , take the jab , take the jab , take the jab .....never ever ever has this bollox had a parallel situation.

 

[Billy the Fish]

It wasn't meant to be a sensible comment just a retort to the fact that people saying NZ is an island (well islands) so of course they could do it. I was just stating that if it was because of being an island then we could have done it also. The demographics and thus reality are as you say very different .

What was also very different though is their approach , Johnson never wanted lockdown and history has shown this by his subsequent actions and so we got the worst of both worlds a lockdown that was not enforced but impacted the economy and still didn't control the disease.

I understand the thinking behind not having forced vaccination (though disagree) but certainly stronger social measures against the unvaccinated should have been in place and a much stronger line on mask wearing should have been put in place but as I said Johnson didn't really believe his scientists.

The work on getting jabs done was good the rest of his actions were a mess.

Fair comment in bold, I've obviously misread the context.

I could argue with almost everything else you've written, but it's probably for another thread and it's all been done to death already so there's no point in wasting either of our time!!!

 

[Seagull27]

Of course it sounds like that, because it was!

Nobody is trying to argue that we handled it better, simply that NZ has some huge geographical advantages over Europe.

It's the using of NZ to indulge in UK bashing that I take issue with. If people are going to do that, surely they have to also compare the rest of Europe and that has really been much of a muchness.

Sure - but this thread is about how well Ardern has performed, not looking to make a point about the UK. I would also compare to the rest of Europe but I haven't lived there so can't really say what the experience was like.

 

[sydney]

its just a little practice for later on ....get ready...

 

[Wardy's twin]

Both ends of the COVID spectrum are hard. Saving lives now against saving an economy later, both have expensive price tags.

Agreed. But simple things like wearing masks and taking social measures against the unvaccinated are not a big impact on the economy yet would have driven down hospitalisations, deaths and the need for lockdowns.

 

[sydney]

Agreed. But simple things like wearing masks and taking social measures against the unvaccinated are not a big impact on the economy yet would have driven down hospitalisations, deaths and the need for lockdowns.

if you chose to invoke your right (freedom) to not get inoculated then you chose your right to be denied free health care .......just my angle.

 

[portslade seagull]

Why is it when I see this name Ithink it is some South American striker we are chasing

 

[Wardy's twin]

Covid aside, Ardern is simply the poster girl for people obsessed with gesture politics. There's plenty of regulars on this board, it's usually the same people who think Corbyn and Momentum were a good idea.

As long as a policy sounds nice and fluffy they'll go along with it without considering the knock on effects.

So you think Boris has done a good job? He can't even lie without being caught out .

My politics are left of centre but could equally be (and have been) right of centre when Labour has moved to the left. Neither Corbyn nor Momentum sit well in the modern British society and have done more damage to working people by denying Labour a seat at the top table. But what's that got to do with Arden and what does 'poster girl for gesture politics' really mean?

to be frivolous the only one making a gesture is Johnson and that's a 2 fingered one to the Britsh public.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Covid aside, Ardern is simply the poster girl for people obsessed with gesture politics. There's plenty of regulars on this board, it's usually the same people who think Corbyn and Momentum were a good idea.

As long as a policy sounds nice and fluffy they'll go along with it without considering the knock on effects.

And how many of these achievements do you consider "gesture politics"?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3087161944643747

 

[nicko31]

"We're an island as well" is probably the most idiotic comment people make when comparing the UK and NZ.

I always forget that NZ is connected by rail to a continent of 1.5 billion people and only separated by 30 miles of water.

What do you think the knock on effect of closing our borders would be? Most of our freight comes in by lorry from Europe. Are you going to implement a 10 day quarantine period for every lorry driver? We'd all starve to death before the virus caught us.

Its not just NZ that shamed us. I don't think I can think there is an island state on earth that has handled Covid worse than the Johnson government.

Even now he is trying to pretend its all over, that we are exceptional and leading the world out of the pandemic. Its complete bollocks

 

[sydney]

don't feel bad about yourselves ..NZ is a lovely country with fresh water , fresh air , fish in the seas , mushrooms on tap and some of the best weed on the planet.....its the volcanic soil ...!! if and when we can manage it we will head back there to stay probably south island around Nelson ....God's country.

 

[Baldseagull]

You have no evidence at all that would be the case.

Running a remote island on the other side of the world with a tiny population is a totally different thing to densely populated countries of 60m plus population with shared borders. The comparisons are nonsense.

I agree, but then why did you ask me to make the comparison? I did start with saying she could not have done what she did there, over here.

Perhaps the question should have been, could she have done much better than she has done in NZ? In my opinion, and from the other side of the world, not much, no.
You may say I have no evidence for this either, but try and find such a tiny number of deaths and cases in a city even half the size of Aukland anywhere else in the world.

 

[Baldseagull]

Yeah your right, someone called Baldseagull posting on a football forum has to be taken seriously.

You don't have to take me seriously, but then I don't make posts stating I know something outrageous, that can't be verified or proven.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Its not just NZ that shamed us. I don't think I can think there is an island state on earth that has handled Covid worse than the Johnson government.

Even now he is trying to pretend its all over, that we are exceptional and leading the world out of the pandemic. Its complete bollocks

Now your on here, I'm off. Your Boris bashing bores me to hell.

 

[Billy the Fish]

And how many of these achievements do you consider "gesture politics"?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3087161944643747

That's simply a video of a politician blowing their own trumpet. Boris could easily claim to have done many of many of those things while being one of the least trusted and controversial leaders in living memory.

It's all about image. People call Brois a snake oil salesman but if anything he's the opposite, he's so up front about his shortcomings they're said to be "built in". Ardern is the epitome of a snake oil salesman, she's the same as every other politician but repackaged with "empathy"! Most people over here will swallow everything she says without question simply because she's not a Tory and she's seen as a so called progressive. People did exactly the same thing with Macron when he was elected.

For the record, Boris is a terrible leader, the other side are even worse. UK politics is full of talentless chancers and needs a proper shake up.

To answer the original question I'll listen to it and make a list. **Only managed the first minute, but you get the jist.

Gesture politics:
Planted a load of trees.
Created loads of jobs (means nothing without context)
Banned offshore speculators - (Why is that good?)
Better cancer care (More words without context)
Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 people (Yet people demonise the Tories constantly about privatising the NHS)
Made highways safer (more words without context)

Happened in the UK in the same period:
Unemployment rate broadly the same as NZ
Raised minimum wage over the rate of inflation
Highest increase in wages in a decade
Winter energy payment
Banned single use plastic bags

Would cause uproar in this country:
Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 people (People demonise the Tories constantly about privatising the NHS)
Stopped schools running on donations (NUT and TUC would piss their pants if that was happening)
Breaking the cycle of family and sexual violence (WTF)


Nobody ever seems to mention locking her own citizens out of the country without warning or cozying up to China and moving away from 5 eyes security sharing.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That's simply a video of a politician blowing their own trumpet. Boris could easily claim to have done many of many of those things while being one of the least trusted and controversial leaders in living memory.

It's all about image. People call Brois a snake oil salesman but if anything he's the opposite, he's so up front about his shortcomings they're said to be "built in". Ardern is the epitome of a snake oil salesman, she's the same as every other politician but repackaged with "empathy"! Most people over here will swallow everything she says without question simply because she's not a Tory and she's seen as a so called progressive. People did exactly the same thing with Macron when he was elected.

For the record, Boris is a terrible leader, the other side are even worse. UK politics is full of talentless chancers and needs a proper shake up.

To answer the original question I'll listen to it and make a list. **Only managed the first minute, but you get the jist.

Gesture politics:
Planted a load of trees.
Created loads of jobs (means nothing without context)
Banned offshore speculators - (Why is that good?)
Better cancer care (More words without context)
Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 people (Yet people demonise the Tories constantly about privatising the NHS)
Made highways safer (more words without context)

Happened in the UK in the same period:
Unemployment rate broadly the same as NZ
Raised minimum wage over the rate of inflation
Highest increase in wages in a decade
Winter energy payment
Banned single use plastic bags

Would cause uproar in this country:
Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 people (People demonise the Tories constantly about privatising the NHS)
Stopped schools running on donations (NUT and TUC would piss their pants if that was happening)
Breaking the cycle of family and sexual violence (WTF)


Nobody ever seems to mention locking her own citizens out of the country without warning or cozying up to China and moving away from 5 eyes security sharing.

Boris's "achievements" amount to "getting Brexit done" (the ultimate gesture) and sending Liz Truss out to prevent nuclear war. Oh, and opening the odd bottle of plonk, obvs.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

don't feel bad about yourselves ..NZ is a lovely country with fresh water , fresh air , fish in the seas , mushrooms on tap and some of the best weed on the planet.....its the volcanic soil ...!! if and when we can manage it we will head back there to stay probably south island around Nelson ....God's country.[/QUOTE}

IF and WHEN are the two operative words, we too have friends that we are desperate to visit in NZ, friends that are rapidly approaching their 80th birthdays.

I've a feeling that by the time New Zealand opens her borders to UK tourists again, it's going to come far too late for our friends, they will either be in a home for the elderly. or worse.

Sad.

 

[Wardy's twin]

What amazes me about the whole situation is not that Boris has told lie after lie but there are people still prepared to defend him. If he was family yes I understand you support your own but in Boris's case even his siblings have given up on him.