It takes courage to burgle someone

[Uncle Spielberg]

Quite unbelievable. WTF is going on here ?

A judge who described a drug-addicted serial thief as "courageous" is to be investigated by the judicial watchdog.

Judge Peter Bowers reportedly made the remark while sentencing 26-year-old Richard Rochford for burglary.

The Teesside Crown Court judge also said he thought prison did criminals "little good".

His remarks sparked criticism and Prime Minister David Cameron said burglars were "cowards" whose "hateful crime" violated victims.

Rochford, of Westbourne Grove, Redcar, admitted two burglaries and asked for one more burglary and one attempted burglary to be taken into account.

He was given a two-year supervision order with drug rehabilitation and 200 hours' unpaid work, with a one-year driving ban.

'Not bravery'

The judge reportedly told the offender on Tuesday: "It takes a huge amount of courage, as far as I can see, for somebody to burgle somebody's house. I wouldn't have the nerve."

He added that he "might get pilloried" for his decision, but claimed jail would not do much good in this case and said: "I'm going to take a chance on you."

A spokesperson for the Office for Judicial Complaints said it had "received a number of complaints in relation to comments that His Honour Judge Bowers made in relation to a case in Teesside Crown Court on 4 September 2012".

David Cameron on ITV Daybreak: "Burglars should be sent to jail"
"Those complaints will be considered under the Judicial Discipline Regulations in the usual way. It would not be appropriate to comment further at this stage," the spokesperson said.

Speaking to ITV's Daybreak programme, Mr Cameron said: "I haven't seen the specific case.

"Judges sometimes say things that, you have to read the full context and the rest of it.

"But I'm very clear; burglary is not bravery, burglary is cowardice, burglary is a hateful crime.

"People sometimes say it is not a violent crime but, actually, if you've been burgled, you do feel it was violent, breaking into your home.

"That's why this government is actually changing the law to toughen the rules on self-defence towards burglars."

'Too lenient'

One of Rochford's victims, Mark Clayton, of Lingdale, North Yorkshire, condemned Judge Bowers' comments.

He said: "How can a man who is burgling houses be told it takes courage and be let off? He hasn't learnt anything from his mistakes.

"What is courage? I did 22 years with Her Majesty's forces. I've done a lot of things that took immense courage.


Richard Rochford will undergo a drug rehabilitation course "The judge has been too lenient towards this guy's mental state. It's hardly fair.

"I don't know anything about the prison service but I'm sure it's all about rehabilitating people. That's why it's there."

Mr Clayton said Rochford had broken into his house in the early hours, ransacked it and taken laptops, televisions and items of sentimental value.

He added: "I thought Rochford would get some sentence. He has to learn from what he's done. He can't just be let off for the crimes he's committed."

Javed Khan, chief executive of the national charity Victim Support, said burglars should be brought to justice because of the impact of their actions on victims.

"Burglary can be a traumatic experience for victims and leave long lasting scars," he said.

"It is therefore disappointing to see it being taken lightly by anyone - not least someone whose role it is to make sure offenders are brought to justice."

A Ministry of Justice Spokeswoman said: "Sentencing is purely a matter for the courts, as only they have the full facts of a case before them."

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The judge reportedly told the offender on Tuesday: "It takes a huge amount of courage, as far as I can see, for somebody to burgle somebody's house.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

But its probably true. I would crap myself if I tried to break into anyone's home to steal anything.

 

[Muhammed - I’m hard - Bruce Lee]

But its probably true. I would crap myself if I tried to break into anyone's home to steal anything.

you'd crap yourself more if it was my home

seriously though....how do some of these judges brains work?

 

[drew]

The Judge's use of the word courage was unfortunate in the extreme and when I heard the story first I took a similar view to most people. However, what the above does not show that the burglar has got himself off drugs since the buglaries in Feb and by accounts has turned his life around. Take out the word courage and include the fact that the judge told him that if he sees him again it will start at 30 months then it has a bit more perspective. Had he gone to jail then he would likely have had access to drugs and would come out committing more crimes to fuel that habit therefore resulting in even more victims and therefore being counterproductive.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

The Judge's use of the word courage was unfortunate in the extreme and when I heard the story first I took a similar view to most people. However, what the above does not show that the burglar has got himself off drugs since the buglaries in Feb and by accounts has turned his life around. Take out the word courage and include the fact that the judge told him that if he sees him again it will start at 30 months then it has a bit more perspective. Had he gone to jail then he would likely have had access to drugs and would come out committing more crimes to fuel that habit therefore resulting in even more victims and therefore being counterproductive.

His lawyer was on the Eddie Mair PM on R4. The true story is that the CPS had (unusually) said that a custodial sentence in this case would be counterproductive as this offender had been a hopeless drug addict at the time and, as mentioned above, had managed to get off drugs prior to sentencing.

Not to mention that guidelines on sentencing urge judges to consider prison as a last resort for drug addicts as jail will usually see the addiction problem becoming more entrenched inside.

The term "courage' is unfortunate but I agree that the sentence was correct in this case. If your kid was a smack addict and was committing acquisitive crime to support his habit I wonder if you would want him locked up or would rather he got better?

That said, if I caught the little twat burgling my house I would have happily beaten him to death with a lump hammer.

 

[spongy]

The Judge's use of the word courage was unfortunate in the extreme and when I heard the story first I took a similar view to most people. However, what the above does not show that the burglar has got himself off drugs since the buglaries in Feb and by accounts has turned his life around. Take out the word courage and include the fact that the judge told him that if he sees him again it will start at 30 months then it has a bit more perspective. Had he gone to jail then he would likely have had access to drugs and would come out committing more crimes to fuel that habit therefore resulting in even more victims and therefore being counterproductive.

I can see the argument you make and understand it, but courage is completely the wrong word, burglary is cowardly, and the worst kind of violation you can cause someone barring physical assault. There is nothing worse than that feeling knowing someone else has been into your own private place and turned your life upside down just to get a few quid for a fix and to me is just as bad as any kind of gbh, sexual assault or murder.

He may have turned his life around but what he did needs to be punished and people like him need to be made examples of.

After seeing what my parents went through after being burgled and their complete loss of trust and privacy and having to feel to move move their (and my home as a child) home of 40 years makes me feel sick to the stomach and they deserve to rot in hell.

The **** that robbed my parents has never been found, I hope they're lying in a ditch with an overdose and preferably they're dead.

 

[BadFish]

I can see the argument you make and understand it, but courage is completely the wrong word, burglary is cowardly, and the worst kind of violation you can cause someone barring physical assault. There is nothing worse than that feeling knowing someone else has been into your own private place and turned your life upside down just to get a few quid for a fix and to me is just as bad as any kind of gbh, sexual assault or murder.

He may have turned his life around but what he did needs to be punished and people like him need to be made examples of.

After seeing what my parents went through after being burgled and their complete loss of trust and privacy and having to feel to move move their (and my home as a child) home of 40 years makes me feel sick to the stomach and they deserve to rot in hell.

The **** that robbed my parents has never been found, I hope they're lying in a ditch with an overdose and preferably they're dead.

Really? I have been burgled (I was not in the house which i guess would make it worse), I have not been raped or murdered so I can't say for sure but I am pretty confident I would rather be burgled than raped or murdered.

 

[Brovion]

A new expression has entered the English language: "As brave as a burglar". Either that or we could have "As daft as a judge"

EDIT: I do agree with him though that prison rarely works. It WAS an unfortunate choice of words though.

 

[Twizzle]

Really? I have been burgled (I was not in the house which i guess would make it worse), I have not been raped or murdered so I can't say for sure but I am pretty confident I would rather be burgled than raped or murdered.

What if you consented to rape by offering yourself to shag the criminal, like in the Julian Assange issue?

 

[BadFish]

What if you consented to rape by offering yourself to shag the criminal, like in the Julian Assange issue?

never had that either

 

[nomoremithras4me]

We were burgled shortly after we moved into our first flat. We had f*** all, 2nd hand furniture, hand me downs from our family etc, a bit like most people when they fly the nest. The wankers took the money we were saving for a washing machine, a video recorder that had the remote connected with a lead, a sega mega drive and some sentimental jewellery. That was 21 years ago, from that day I vowed and declared that any **** who wants to come in without an invitation would get it large. As the years have gone by I've had bigger fights for less, so I can categorically state, if you come in uninvited your going down. That judge is a **** of the biggest order and needs de frocking or whatever they call it a bit livo. Tosser!

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I can see the argument you make and understand it, but courage is completely the wrong word, burglary is cowardly, and the worst kind of violation you can cause someone barring physical assault. There is nothing worse than that feeling knowing someone else has been into your own private place and turned your life upside down just to get a few quid for a fix and to me is just as bad as any kind of gbh, sexual assault or murder.

He may have turned his life around but what he did needs to be punished and people like him need to be made examples of.

After seeing what my parents went through after being burgled and their complete loss of trust and privacy and having to feel to move move their (and my home as a child) home of 40 years makes me feel sick to the stomach and they deserve to rot in hell.

The **** that robbed my parents has never been found, I hope they're lying in a ditch with an overdose and preferably they're dead.

When I lived in Birkehead we were burgled six times when the whole f***ing yard turned into a smack addled dump. I hate to say it but we kind of got on with it...perhaps your mum and dad took it so hard because they were not living in a place where previously normal kids that they knew were turned into skeletal theiving twats by that f***ing awful gear almost overnight.

Most of those poor kids are dead now so you'd be happy about that I guess. Environment and experience taught me that this problem will continue as long as we treat addicts as criminals rather than sick kids who got into something that they had no inkling would reduce them to that.

Criminals who rob to support a habit are in a different category from those that steal for just plain f***ing greed IMO. It's important to differentiate.

 

[BadFish]

I just love the indignant bravado on these threads! Personally I was just glad they took my stuff and we weren't home to experience it or put me or the family at risk. Still they only took replaceable stuff. Not sure how i would act if they were in my house with me, I guess it depends if I thought they were a threat to my family or not. I think some occasions may prove that confronting them may prove more of a threat to the family.

 

[BadFish]

When I lived in Birkehead we were burgled six times when the whole f***ing yard turned into a smack addled dump. I hate to say it but we kind of got on with it...perhaps your mum and dad took it so hard because they were not living in a place where previously normal kids that they knew were turned into skeletal theiving twats by that f***ing awful gear almost overnight.

Most of those poor kids are dead now so you'd be happy about that I guess. Environment and experience taught me that this problem will continue as long as we treat addicts as criminals rather than sick kids who got into something that they had no inkling would reduce them to that.

Criminals who rob to support a habit are in a different category from those that steal for just plain f***ing greed IMO. It's important to differentiate.

This: If you treat the habit then your treat the problem. Prison will not do this. The f***ing gear has taken so many kids from all walks of life, to write them all off as thieving scum is foolish.

 

[Silent Bob]

When I lived in Birkehead we were burgled six times when the whole f***ing yard turned into a smack addled dump. I hate to say it but we kind of got on with it...perhaps your mum and dad took it so hard because they were not living in a place where previously normal kids that they knew were turned into skeletal theiving twats by that f***ing awful gear almost overnight.

Most of those poor kids are dead now so you'd be happy about that I guess. Environment and experience taught me that this problem will continue as long as we treat addicts as criminals rather than sick kids who got into something that they had no inkling would reduce them to that.

Criminals who rob to support a habit are in a different category from those that steal for just plain f***ing greed IMO. It's important to differentiate.

Great post. Setting examples, sending messages, fantasising over their deaths, these things may make people feel better but they don't address the problem or prevent anyone being burgled.

'It takes courage to burgle' is a very strange thing to say, but at the same time to say it's cowardly is daft. You don't get scared and rob a house. That's just silly moralising.

 

[spongy]

I haven't been burgled personally either, but I've seen the state my parents were in after it happened, I didn't choose the right examples possibly, I was just trying to convey the sense of violation they felt after it happened,

It really shook them up, and upset me a lot seeing them like that for months after. It was their life and to have some scum do that without the remorse of the pain they cause to me is unforgiveable, addict or not, if an addict has since turned his life around then so be it, but if it was him that had burgled my parents and had been let off I would have been lived.

Him being let off does nothing to repair the pain and anguish that the victims may have suffered, possibly like my folks, where is their justice?

Short answer is that they haven't had any,

 

[drew]

I can see the argument you make and understand it, but courage is completely the wrong word, burglary is cowardly, and the worst kind of violation you can cause someone barring physical assault. There is nothing worse than that feeling knowing someone else has been into your own private place and turned your life upside down just to get a few quid for a fix and to me is just as bad as any kind of gbh, sexual assault or murder.

He may have turned his life around but what he did needs to be punished and people like him need to be made examples of.

After seeing what my parents went through after being burgled and their complete loss of trust and privacy and having to feel to move move their (and my home as a child) home of 40 years makes me feel sick to the stomach and they deserve to rot in hell.

The **** that robbed my parents has never been found, I hope they're lying in a ditch with an overdose and preferably they're dead.

Several points. Firstly, in an age when we have the armed forces fighting overseas, paralympians overcoming some of the most severe disabilities etc then the use of the word courage was wholly inappropriate and if you read my post then you will see that I'm not condoning the Judges use of the word.

Secondly, it is completely perverse that you put the theft of property above that of assault on the person. Perhaps you should ask someone who has been beaten unconscious whether they would swap that for someone sneaking into their house and taking a £300 tv. Or maybe a women or man that has been raped if they would prefer the same deal. Maybe if he had been old enough to make a decision, baby P would state he was happy to accept a beating from his mothers friend and lodger if it meant no one stole one of his toys.

Finally, if you had two buttons in front of you. The first sent a former addict into prison where he will be supplied with drugs again and then come out in about two years to carry on stealing from peoples homes to feed his habit, possibly descending into violence and therefore creating more victims many times over. Or, the other button gets the guy back into society, drug free, with the chance to get employment, pay taxes and contribute to the society he once attacked and, probably more importantly, no more victims. Which button would you press as the judge?

 

[drew]

I haven't been burgled personally either, but I've seen the state my parents were in after it happened, I didn't choose the right examples possibly, I was just trying to convey the sense of violation they felt after it happened,

It really shook them up, and upset me a lot seeing them like that for months after. It was their life and to have some scum do that without the remorse of the pain they cause to me is unforgiveable, addict or not, if an addict has since turned his life around then so be it, but if it was him that had burgled my parents and had been let off I would have been lived.

Him being let off does nothing to repair the pain and anguish that the victims may have suffered, possibly like my folks, where is their justice?

Short answer is that they haven't had any,

He hasn't been let off. He has been punished but not with a custodial sentence.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I haven't been burgled personally either, but I've seen the state my parents were in after it happened, I didn't choose the right examples possibly, I was just trying to convey the sense of violation they felt after it happened,

It really shook them up, and upset me a lot seeing them like that for months after. It was their life and to have some scum do that without the remorse of the pain they cause to me is unforgiveable, addict or not, if an addict has since turned his life around then so be it, but if it was him that had burgled my parents and had been let off I would have been lived.

Him being let off does nothing to repair the pain and anguish that the victims may have suffered, possibly like my folks, where is their justice?

Short answer is that they haven't had any,

I am only saying that the burglar in the case which Gareth started the thread about was Ill with addiction when he did the crime and has taken a lot of steps to address his problem.

I don't know whether he has shown remorse for what he did whilst in the grip of a powerful addiction but I do know that folks who are smack heads tend not to make rational choices and would sell their own kids to fend off the DTs.

Not sending him down, it turns out, was the right thing to do. The judge will get a spanking off the press for calling burglary an act of courage. If he'd said "absolute f***ing desperation" we would be closer to the proper terminology.

Burglary for greed is different from burglary to support a drug addiction. To understand the difference you would have to either have been a heroin addict or to have lived in an area where a lot of your good friends became one. Wishing them dead is harsh and doesn't speak to the broader issue at all.

I was also an A&E nurse for some years and have seen too many dead addicts to think that the utter waste of those young lives is a good thing for society.