ISIS have apparently burned the Jordanian pilot alive

[Soulman]

Eh? I never said ISIS were representative. I've already explicitly told you this when you asked me the same point previously in this very thread earlier today. I just said that they were Muslims. Extremist Muslims, I'll grant you but still very much Muslims. The last post of mine where I said they were just political revolutionaries was a debating technique called 'sarcasm'. It's used to emphasise a point and to suggest incredulity. I'm sorry it confused you.

Your last point about arguing against not being called muslims indicating that they are representative of muslims makes no sense at all. Seriously, start at the beginning again and hopefully it might start making sense to you.

Spot on.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Your last point about arguing against not being called muslims indicating that they are representative of muslims makes no sense at all.

Well i've explained it to you a number of times, perhaps you ought to start at the beginning of the thread? Maybe the double negative was too much for your wee brain, but unfortunately that appears to be your angle...

...you're arguing against the fact they shouldn't be primarily called muslims.


Troll much? Unless you clarify your position, you just seem to be arguing for the hell of it.
Or alternatively you might not realise that you're arguing both sides of the debate.

 

[looney]

I agree it won't go away, i don't see anyone in denial about the problem though.
Some on here seem to ignorantly think that it's just a muslim issue, which can only make things worse, here and over there. As a good solution can not be gained through ignorance.

Depends what you mean by muslim issue. And this is where you are one of the ignorant. There is no "Good solution", the ending will be messy and unpleasant. possibly ujust and unfair on a lot of people .

 

[Soulman]

Well i suppose i'll have to add that as ISIS are apparently not Muslims, then neither are the ones slaughtering in Somalia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Chad, Nigeria and a few other places. Glad that is cleared up then.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Depends what you mean by muslim issue. And this is where you are one of the ignorant. There is no "Good solution", the ending will be messy and unpleasant. possibly ujust and unfair on a lot of people .

..think that it's just a muslim issue...

The 'just' was important in my post, maybe i should have said 'only' to be clearer.

I unfortunately think perhaps you are right about being no 'good' solution.

 

[Buzzer]

Well i've explained it to you a number of times, perhaps you ought to start at the beginning of the thread? Maybe the double negative was too much for your wee brain, but unfortunately that appears to be your angle....

I'll humour you. You wrote this:

So, now you're arguing against the fact they shouldn't be primarily called muslims. Which would indicate to some that they are representative of muslims.

Let's unpick this into plain English:

Sentence 1:
Arguing against the fact they shouldn't be primarily called muslims = I'm arguing that they should be allowed to be called Muslims.

Yep! I'm saying that they are indeed Muslims. Specifically extremist Muslims.

Sentence 2:
Which would indicate to some that they are representative of Muslims = The fact that I believe ISIS are Muslims means that some people can conclude they fairly represent the entire religion.

No. As I've said at great length, that although they are Muslims, they are extremists, ipso facto they are not a representation of the norm. Sentence 1 does not imply sentence 2.

Hope that helps.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I'll humour you. You wrote this:



Let's unpick this into plain English:

Sentence 1:
Arguing against the fact they shouldn't be primarily called muslims = I'm arguing that they should be allowed to be called Muslims.

Yep! I'm saying that they are indeed Muslims. Specifically extremist Muslims.

Sentence 2
Which would indicate to some that they are representative of Muslims = The fact that I believe ISIS are Muslims means that some people can conclude they fairly represent the entire religion.

No. As I've said at great length, that although they are Muslims, they are extremists, ipso facto they are not a representation of the norm. Sentence 1 does not imply sentence 2.

Right, so because they are not representative of muslims, we shouldn't identify them as such.
Does this not follow?

 

[Soulman]

Right, so because they are not representative of muslims, we shouldn't identify them as such.
Does this not follow?

Maybe if ISIS changed their title and their views which seem to follow Islam........they can throw us off the scent. If not what should we identify them as.

 

[Buzzer]

Right, so because they are not representative of muslims, we shouldn't identify them as such.
Does this not follow?

Jesus wept. How many more times do I have to write that I never said they were representative of muslims? Seriously, I think I've written it out for you at least 3 or 4 times in this thread. Twice in the last 20 minutes. Can you do me a favour and if you've got someone else there can you get them to help you out with this because I'm really not sure how to make this any clearer for you.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Maybe if ISIS changed their title and their views which seem to follow Islam........they can throw us off the scent. If not what should we identify them as.

I'll humour you Soulman.

Your logic:

Tigers are dangerous,
Tigers are animals,
All animals are dangerous.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Muslims still want to live in the dark ages, time to turn off the lights for them
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

I'll humour you Soulman.

Your logic:

Tigers are dangerous,
Tigers are animals,
All animals are dangerous.

Grab that straw. I just asked what we "we should identify them as". All animals are not dangerous, and tigers do not seem to be killing in large numbers in many countries. I will check that they are not killing each other though.

 

[Buzzer]

I'll humour you Soulman.

Your logic:

Tigers are dangerous,
Tigers are animals,
All animals are dangerous.

You've got some brassneck criticising someone else's logic after our latest discussion.

 

[pastafarian]

ISIS is a political problem, not a religious one - It's crucial that we understand this, so that we do not hold Islam responsible for their actions, because it isn't.

ISIS/IS is a political problem,a religious problem and a military problem.As a caliphate it claims all religious,political and military authority over all muslims worldwide,its crucial that you understand this.

Islam is responsible,it is a part of the problem.ALL muslims however are not responsible.Most people seem to be able to recognise this,you and pompous are just going round and round in circles with your heads buried in the sand arguing for the sake of it.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Jesus wept. How many more times do I have to write that I never said they were representative of muslims? Seriously, I think I've written it out for you at least 3 or 4 times in this thread. Twice in the last 20 minutes. Can you do me a favour and if you've got someone else there can you get them to help you out with this because I'm really not sure how to make this any clearer for you.

You're missing the point, i haven't said you are. We'll get there.

Your sentence 2 implies that sentence 1 is false.

Your Sentence 2: they are not a representation of the norm
Your sentence 1: I'm saying that they are indeed Muslims

So if they are not representative, why should they be held up and identified as such, it's not helpful to anyone but the terrorists. We don't call them 'bearded terrorists'.



Now perhaps you haven't been able to grasp the point that they shouldn't be primarily identified as muslims, as they are not representative of them.

Note in sentence 1 you've said 'they are' this of course is true, although some muslims would deny it. However the question was about whether they should be primarily identified as such. Again, i repeat that is perhaps the point you are missing.

 

[Soulman]

Muslims still want to live in the dark ages, time to turn off the lights for them
regards
DR

TBF, not all Muslims, but perhaps start with those that are not really Muslims (according to some) but we are not sure what to call them at this present time. They will need a name change though because at the moment ISIS is a bit of a giveaway.

 

[Soulman]

I'll humour you Soulman.

Your logic:

Tigers are dangerous,
Tigers are animals,
All animals are dangerous.

I've just fallen in, you mean Tamil Tigers, yep you are spot on.

 

[Justice]

I just cant read about or listen to this shite anymore I just find it all very depressing, don't buy newspapers or listen to the news and your soon forget all about this bullshit.

 

[glasfryn]

I disagree. I believe that this kind of brutal uprising would have happened regardless of Islam given the circumstances - just like it has all over the world throughout history. It is a result of decades and more of oppression, violence and war.

don't you think the world and its population have moved on a bit, without resorting to this sort of violence

 

[Buzzer]

You're missing the point, i haven't said you are. We'll get there.

Your sentence 2 implies that sentence 1 is false.

Your Sentence 2: they are not a representation of the norm
Your sentence 1: I'm saying that they are indeed Muslims

So if they are not representative, why should they be held up and identified as such, it's not helpful to anyone but the terrorists. We don't call them 'bearded terrorists'.



Now perhaps you haven't been able to grasp the point that they shouldn't be primarily identified as muslims, as they are not representative of them.

Note in sentence 1 you've said 'they are' this of course is true, although some muslims would deny it. However the question was about whether they should be primarily identified as such. Again, i repeat that is perhaps the point you are missing.

At what point have I ever said they were representative?

And no, sentence 2 does not imply sentence 1 is false. You can be a Muslim, you can even primarily identify yourself as one and not be representative. ISIS clearly demonstrate that. You really are struggling here.

Please for the love of God, stop digging and go away and have a think about it.