Is Keir really credible?

[Is it PotG?]

You sure you're not living in a bubble? When Starmer became leader, Labour were polling around 30%; they're now polling at over 50% with every polling company. He's definitely doing something right.

They're not voting for him, he's proposed nowt. It's an anti-Tory vote.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Sir Keir needs to really listen to Guy Hands, long term Tory backer and owner of private equity firm, Terra Firma.

He is stating a view about how to make Brexit work for the economy and it is completely different from the current Tory party’s idea. This guy is in the ‘Growth’ coalition. Certainly worth listening to if you want to jump start the economy.

 

[beorhthelm]

You sure you're not living in a bubble? When Starmer became leader, Labour were polling around 30%; they're now polling at over 50% with every polling company. He's definitely doing something right.

what policies is he doing right, other than "not being Truss", to achieve that polling?

 

[rogersix]

Are you suggesting that should he make progress then he's doing it against the odds?

are you suggesting that to win a fight, you have to stop poking yourself in the eye first?

how long do you think it will take the torys wets to claim their party back, ditch their lunatic fringe, the erg, and become pro eu for business, business sake?

 

[highflyer]

You sure you're not living in a bubble? When Starmer became leader, Labour were polling around 30%; they're now polling at over 50% with every polling company. He's definitely doing something right.

He's in opposition against a party that has been self-destructing in a way that has never been seen before. Before that, even with Johnson showing his colours more and more clearly, the polls were not moving in the way that was so confidently predicted by so many 'once Corbyn goes and Starmer takes over'.

It may stay that way (Tory implosion), and he'll be fine to win an election. My fear though is that Sunak is, potentially, going to do far better than Johnson (damaged goods) or Truss (an ideologically driven idiot) and things will change in the two years before an election. If you don't see that as a real possibility then I think you may be the one in a bubble (or in need of a history lesson, to quote our once-great-now-dead-to-us ex-leader).

And if that happens it means, at some point, Starmer will have to face up to questions for which there are no easy answers. Pretty much anything meaningful that he does say (increase taxes on the rich, cut public services, increase debt, rely on MMT, 'don't see growth as the be all and end all of economics and focus on redistribution'...) is going to cause him problems.

 

[highflyer]

I got the impression from the original post that he had specifically backtracked on all the points of his 10 pledges which would be weird as some of them were as follows:

Increase top rate of tax - I'm sure that is still their policy so that hasn't been scrapped.
Climate Justice - Heard him on LBC this morning about the target date for 0 and renewable energy so I'm not sure he's ditched that
Promote Peace and Human Rights - So he wants wars and a lack of human rights now?
Equality - He's scrapped that?


Genuine question, am I looking at the wrong 10 pledges?

There's nothing secret about this. He said he'd stick to these ten pledges and then said he wouldn't. Very openly. Whatever the practical implications, it was a very clear way to signal that he wants to chase the centre right at the expense of the centre left. Fine, if that's what you want to do. But at least be f*cking honest about it in a leadership campaign.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

There's nothing secret about this. He said he'd stick to these ten pledges and then said he wouldn't. Very openly. Whatever the practical implications, it was a very clear way to signal that he wants to chase the centre right at the expense of the centre left. Fine, if that's what you want to do. But at least be f*cking honest about it in a leadership campaign.

Sorry. I'm really confused. Do you believe he's actively scrapped the points I raised. Ie peace etc

There's saying you'll be pledging a whole new manifesto going forward and then there's saying you will actively go against the pledges you had made. Pledging a new one going forwards surely leaves the door open for previous pledges to be included again, no?

As far as I can see, he hasn't said he's now pro war

And as I said, I've recently (today) seen things backing up the same points on top rate tax and climate change.

I must be looking at the wrong 10 pledges (genuinely), as this doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[nwgull]

They're not voting for him, he's proposed nowt. It's an anti-Tory vote..If that's the case then why have the polling figures for Libs, Greens and others stayed the same for the past few years? An anti-tory vote would see a boost for the other parties, particularly the lib-dems

 

[Southern Scouse]

Of course he is credible, If he ever gets a chance. How he does is another story.

 

[highflyer]

Sorry. I'm really confused. Do you believe he's actively scrapped the points I raised. Ie peace etc

There's saying you'll be pledging a whole new manifesto going forward and then there's saying you will actively go against the pledges you had made. Pledging a new one going forwards surely leaves the door open for previous pledges to be included again, no?

As far as I can see, he hasn't said he's now pro war

And as I said, I've recently (today) seen things backing up the same points on top rate tax and climate change.

I must be looking at the wrong 10 pledges (genuinely), as this doesn't make any sense to me.

There is more detail in some than you are implying:

https://www.clpd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Keir-Starmers-10-Pledges.pdf

It was meant as a package. A reassurance that he would not be backtracking on many of the things that a lot of us think that Labour should be committed to. A way to win votes from members like me. Which worked.

Some are indeed motherhood and apple pie. 9 and 10 for instance.

But others are more meaningful. He may stick with some. he may not (as yet we have almost no idea WHAT he wants to do. He's been bland to the point of invisibility for most of his time as leader). There's a few in there that he would find uncomfortable to keep if he wants to cosy up to the city and the wealthy (2, 5 ,8). I don't want another Labour government in the pocket of big business and the right wing press. We have the Tories for that. So those pledges were important to me. I voted for him because he said he'd take them into a manifesto. Without those pledges he would not have had my vote. or the vote of many others. Now that he no longer needs my vote, he has been very quick to say, very clearly, and very openly, that he won't keep any of those promises if he doesn't feel like it. And he's already, very obviously, backtracked on the 7th pledge.

I feel that I have the right to be a bit pissed off about this. It feels dishonest.

If you find that confusing there's not much more I can say to explain it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

are you suggesting that to win a fight, you have to stop poking yourself in the eye first?

how long do you think it will take the torys wets to claim their party back, ditch their lunatic fringe, the erg, and become pro eu for business, business sake?

Do you always answer a question with a question?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

There is more detail in some than you are implying:

https://www.clpd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Keir-Starmers-10-Pledges.pdf

It was meant as a package. A reassurance that he would not be backtracking on many of the things that a lot of us think that Labour should be committed to. A way to win votes from members like me. Which worked.

Some are indeed motherhood and apple pie. 9 and 10 for instance.

But others are more meaningful. He may stick with some. he may not (as yet we have almost no idea WHAT he wants to do. He's been bland to the point of invisibility for most of his time as leader). There's a few in there that he would find uncomfortable to keep if he wants to cosy up to the city and the wealthy (2, 5 ,8). I don't want another Labour government in the pocket of big business and the right wing press. We have the Tories for that. So those pledges were important to me. I voted for him because he said he'd take them into a manifesto. Without those pledges he would not have had my vote. or the vote of many others. Now that he no longer needs my vote, he has been very quick to say, very clearly, and very openly, that he won't keep any of those promises if he doesn't feel like it. And he's already, very obviously, backtracked on the 7th pledge.

I feel that I have the right to be a bit pissed off about this. It feels dishonest.

If you find that confusing there's not much more I can say to explain it.

Thanks.

So he hasn't definitively gone back on all the policies like the previous poster originally said.

Thank you for clearing this up.

 

[highflyer]

Thanks.

So he hasn't definitively gone back on all the policies like the previous poster originally said.

Thank you for clearing this up.

'darling?'
'yes my love?'
'Do you remember those vows I made when we got married, last year?'
'yes, what about them?'
'I've decided that I don't want to be held to them any more and I'll break them if I feel like it'
'Oh...what, all of them?'
'Not sure yet. I've only broken the one so far - the one about not shagging other people. And only because I wanted to'
'Oh well...as long as it's only the one and you had good reason and haven't definititively gone back on all of them yet, I can't really complain, can I?'


The poster said he had 'renounced' (or forgotten) the pledges. And he absolutely has renounced them.
As in 'refuse to continue to recognize or abide by'

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

'darling?'
'yes my love?'
'Do you remember those vows I made when we got married, last year?'
'yes, what about them?'
'I've decided that I don't want to be held to them any more and I'll break them if I feel like it'
'Oh...what, all of them?'
'Not sure yet. I've only broken the one so far - the one about not shagging other people. And only because I wanted to'
'Oh well...as long as it's only the one and you had good reason and haven't definititively gone back on all of them yet, I can't really complain, can I?'


The poster said he had 'renounced' (or forgotten) the pledges. And he absolutely has renounced them.
As in 'refuse to continue to recognize or abide by'

Apart from the ones he hasn't renounced.

Got it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

He has hardly taken Russell-Moyle to task for his appalling behaviour last week. A tad disappointing.

Rosie Duffield

 

[rippleman]

He has hardly taken Russell-Moyle to task for his appalling behaviour last week. A tad disappointing.

Rosie Duffield

But imagine how much worse it would have been if Jeremy Corbyn was in charge.

(Posting for a friend)

 

[Is it PotG?]

But imagine how much worse it would have been if Jeremy Corbyn was in charge.

(Posting for a friend)

Sorry, I have NO idea what that means as a response.

 

[carlzeiss]

He has hardly taken Russell-Moyle to task for his appalling behaviour last week. A tad disappointing.

Rosie Duffield

Was never going to happen though

 

[Bold Seagull]

He has hardly taken Russell-Moyle to task for his appalling behaviour last week. A tad disappointing.

Rosie Duffield

Only just finished reading your Mail on Sunday? Come on, it's Tuesday already...

 

[Is it PotG?]

Was never going to happen though

Well it's not like he doesn't want to upset the left side of the Party is it?