Is Ashley Barnes good enough for the championship

[Mutts Nuts]

I just wonder what peoples assessment of Barnes would have been if he was playing for City yeterday or any other team thats visited the Amex? "multi million pound player"? all this talk of him being the clubs top goal scorer is a smoke screen. Apart from taking a good penalty from what ive seen he offers very little. CMS is on a poor run of form but makes up for his lack of goals with work rate, he just hasnt had the service for much of this season

He is not good enough, he seems to take forever trying to work out what to do with the ball

 

[aolstudios]

You've made your opinions abundantly clear.
I just wish (and I bet every person in football) I could be so certain about a 21 year old, how has played 16 games @ the highest level he's ever played. Predominately out of position due to playing in a side, that until yesterday was unable to 'boss' the midfield.

Calde and Buckley were ripping BC apart yesterday, both playing in a natural position.
Vincelot didn't play well yesterday, Barnes wasn't hugging the touchline.
If he was, Sparrow and Bridcutt, would have been over run as usual.

 

[bhawoddy]

You've made your opinions abundantly clear.
I just wish (and I bet every person in football) I could be so certain about a 21 year old, how has played 16 games @ the highest level he's ever played. Predominately out of position due to playing in a side, that until yesterday was unable to 'boss' the midfield.

Calde and Buckley were ripping BC apart yesterday, both playing in a natural position.
Vincelot didn't play well yesterday, Barnes wasn't hugging the touchline.
If he was, Sparrow and Bridcutt, would have been over run as usual.

LOL. my comments were for amusement of course. Not to be taken too seriously.

Probably worth remembering that navarro was playing as a 3rd midfielder too. Hardly gonna need 4 central midfielders to null the threat from a quite awful BC.

 

[severnside gull]

Its not "mindless prejudice" at all my friend. You keep referring back to last season. Last season is well and truly over and we are finding out THIS SEASON that he just cannot cut it. Once again we would all love to be proved wrong but just cannot see it happening. You also need to remember that last year was a million times easier than this and stats mean f*** all compared to the champ. He takes a good pen granted but hasnt given our attack any Teeth this year at all. Forget about his defending, he is primarily there to play as a striker/attacking player and he really doesnt look the part. IMO he would be better suited to dropping down a level and getting some games there for a while until his confidence returns somewhat. Then perhaps we might see a different Barnes to this but for me, he lacks the class/speed to be a decent champ player.

Allways happy to be proved wrong though.

Not mindless prejudice?

This season Barnes is our leading scorer.

This season Barnes' goals to shots ratio is 1:6 which compares favorably both within the club (CMS 1:8) and in the division generally (Maynard at Bristol City for example also averages a goal to every 8 attempts and has scored just one goal more than Barnes this season despite the interest he attracts).


Of course Barnes has, as you will doubtless point out, demonstrated the ability to score from the penalty spot - or should he be criticised for that as well despite the number of pens "better" players managed to miss last season?


This season Barnes has helped to resolve our defensive frailties by "defending from the front"



You need to open your eyes to the reality rather than what you choose to see.




Mok_150......if "CMS makes up for his lack of goals with work rate, he just hasnt had the service for much of this season" what better service has Barnes had being asked to play out wide rather than in his natural position? Just asking.

 

[Stat Brother]

Probably worth remembering that navarro was playing as a 3rd midfielder too. Hardly gonna need 4 central midfielders to null the threat from a quite awful BC.

All true, and one of your better points.

 

[maltaseagull]

The fella isn't a left winger.

This.

 

[olliemorris95]

Two words 'HE'S SHIT

 

[bhawoddy]

All true, and one of your better points.

thanks stat! surely you sw the funny side of the tunnel comments? hehe

 

[Acker79]

his total of 3 assists is second only behind CMS.

Does that include his shot that the portsmouth keeper parried and CMS followed up? It surely doesn't include situations such as peterborough where he pressured the keeper into passing the ball to noone to score, or the free kick he won that Harley scored from, or the pressuring during the build up to the goal v derby?

 

[Mr Burns]

This season Barnes is our leading scorer.

This season Barnes' goals to shots ratio is 1:6 which compares favorably both within the club (CMS 1:8) and in the division generally (Maynard at Bristol City for example also averages a goal to every 8 attempts and has scored just one goal more than Barnes this season despite the interest he attracts).

Which is why I always say you cannot judge a player on stats. They don't prove a lot, or you could prove nearly anything with them. Depends what parts you want to quote.

Unless of course it is being suggested that Barnes is a better player than CMS and Maynard.

If so a bit puzzling why he's out of contract in the summer, yet CMS has 5 years and is valued at £3 and Maynard is valued at £3million plus (although on yestersdays performance I'd value him closer to three quid)

 

[Mr Burns]

He is not good enough, he seems to take forever trying to work out what to do with the ball

Exactly. In the time he takes to gety a shot away, another player may get a shot away not score and make his stats look weaker in the goals to shot colum, where as out Ash has lost the ball, probably sitting on his arse moaning at the ref, and the other side have the ball. That happened at least twice yesterday. He seems to try to flick the ball over his head, or take forever to get control of it in their penatly area, and most of the time loses the ball.

I would imagine he is one of the best players in training when he has a lot of time to do things, but in a game, he's painfully to slow to do anything.

 

[pauli cee]

squad player at best IMO, have always tried to back him, but just really seems to lack in too many areas. admittedly unfair to criticise too much as normally playing out of position, but feel he would have fustrated just as much up front. shame, as do like the bloke, but no, not really. unless he's happy just to hang around for the odd minor cup appearance, or non impact from the bench..

 

[Mr Burns]

Mok_150......if "CMS makes up for his lack of goals with work rate, he just hasnt had the service for much of this season" what better service has Barnes had being asked to play out wide rather than in his natural position? Just asking.

Is Barnes being played out of position?? What is his 'natural' position.

Or has Gus deceided that he is not a striker, hence why he no longer plays him there? If you want to say he's a striker maybe he isn't good enough for us , as why is Gus still looking to bring another striker in?

Only someone with Mad Cows would suggest Barnes is ahead of CMS or Hoskins for the strikers role, and when another striker comes in it pretty safe to say Barnes is no longer consdiered a striker by Poyet.

So maybe we are being harsh on all judging him as a striker,

So maybe we should be judging him as a defensive/winger or attacking midfielder...,.........

 

[Acker79]

If so a bit puzzling why he's out of contract in the summer, yet CMS has 5 years and is valued at £3 and Maynard is valued at £3million plus (although on yestersdays performance I'd value him closer to three quid)

Gus has suggested Barnes is worth £1million. (Barnes can be worth £1million From The Argus))

CMS is at the start of a three year contract, Barnes is at the end of his contract and the past two seasons has shown that Gus doesn't like to sort contracts until he knows what division he will be in the following season. The contract status of them is as relevant as the stats you don't like.

 

[Mr Burns]

Gus has suggested Barnes is worth £1million. (Barnes can be worth £1million From The Argus))

CMS is at the start of a three year contract, Barnes is at the end of his contract and the past two seasons has shown that Gus doesn't like to sort contracts until he knows what division he will be in the following season. The contract status of them is as relevant as the stats you don't like.

I thougt CMS had 5 years.

Barnes can be worth a million, is not the same as Barnes IS worth a million.

If he IS worth a million, then I suggest Poyet gets him signed on a long term deal now, as otherwise he'll leave for next to nothing as set by a tribunal. But he hasn't secured his future, and Barnes is free to talk to any club he wants. Hardly something you would allow to happen to a million pound striker. Unlike Murray, I haven't heard of many/any clubs lining up to snatch Barnes from us. Why has Bridcutt signed a new contract? why has Dunk signed a new contract?? Then why has Barnes not?

 

[Acker79]

I thougt CMS had 5 years.

Barnes can be worth a million, is not the same as Barnes IS worth a million.

If he IS worth a million, then I suggest Poyet gets him signed on a long term deal now, as otherwise he'll leave for next to nothing as set by a tribunal. But he hasn't secured his future, and Barnes is free to talk to any club he wants. Hardly something you would allow to happen to a million pound striker. Unlike Murray, I haven't heard of many/any clubs lining up to snatch Barnes from us. Why has Bridcutt signed a new contract? why has Dunk signed a new contract?? Then why has Barnes not?

"If Ash gets close to 20 this season his value can go up to £1 million." He didn't just get close to 20 he got 20. He achieved the marker that gus set for him to be worth £1m.

I have not heard about Dunk and Bridcutt signing new contracts, and so I did a search at the argus and found Dunk signed a one year extension covering til june 2013, he signed this february last year. Bridcutt signed a two year deal in April last year, because his previous contract covered to the end of last season, i.e. Bridcutt, who is rumoured (though denied by gus) to be attracting interest from premier league clubs, didn't sign until we had won promotion and knew what division we would be in.

CMS may be a 5 year contract, I thought I was writing what you had written (was taking your word on the length of contract as that wasn't the important thing, the important thing was that he is at the start of the contract so of course he has more years left than Barnes) but either mistyped or misread.

 

[supaseagull]

If, for once, he is played in the CORRECT position of a striker and alongside a good centre forward he can feed off (like Murray & Wood last year) - then yes, as proven in the second half yesterday, he can be good enough.

My criticisms of Barnes are that he gets knocked off the ball way too easily and seems to let his head go down if things don't go his way. I actually think a loan stint to someone like Charlton may do him some good.

People also need to remember that he is still only 22 years old and yet, has scored 5 goals in a tough Championship and is also being played way out of position.

Judge a player like Barnes when he is played in his natural position and isn't have to fill in on the left wing!!!

Look at CMS at the same age(22) and he scored just 8 goals in League 2 - would those writing Barnes off have written off CMS then?

 

[bhawoddy]

If, for once, he is played in the CORRECT position of a striker and alongside a good centre forward he can feed off (like Murray & Wood last year) - then yes, as proven in the second half yesterday, he can be good enough.

My criticisms of Barnes are that he gets knocked off the ball way too easily and seems to let his head go down if things don't go his way. I actually think a loan stint to someone like Charlton may do him some good.

People also need to remember that he is still only 22 years old and yet, has scored 5 goals in a tough Championship and is also being played way out of position.

Judge a player like Barnes when he is played in his natural position and isn't have to fill in on the left wing!!!

Look at CMS at the same age(22) and he scored just 8 goals in League 2 - would those writing Barnes off have written off CMS then?

Can we judge him on his centre forwards performance against wrexham?

 

[Acker79]

€

Can we judge him on his centre forwards performance against wrexham?

No. Because, a) as mr burns told us many times last season, you can't judge a barnes on one performance. b) It was his first game up front for a while, his first full game since october, after serving a three match ban so not played at all for a couple of weeks, and he was part of a team that wasn't exactly our strongest line up supporting him, playing a lone striker role he hasn't made a habit of playing. But mostly a).

 

[supaseagull]

Can we judge him on his centre forwards performance against wrexham?

read the first sentance of my post smart arse...He has no support up front against Wrexham and was playing a lone striker role.