If you think our losses last season in this division were excessive at £8 million.......

[Captain Sensible]

I imagine time will tell, when the accounts are public and can be looked at in more detail.

Burnley though - http://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/football/burnley-fc/burnley-announce-3-16m-profit-1-5153557

"The club made an operating loss of £4.4 million but the transfer of Rodriguez pushed the Clarets into the black."

"The Clarets’ wage bill was reduced by around £2.5million to below £17million but turnover fell by £4million to £23million, largely due to a further reduction in parachute payments from the Premier League and lower attendances."

I would guess parachute payments could be a key word there.

Yes but i would say our wages bill was the same or less than Burnley's. So our loss was down to transfers then? Either way, its a big difference. I wonder if our loss was larger than any clubs that came down from the PL. What did Sheffield Wednesday do? SW Have no parachute payments, have about the same attendances maybe less.Didn't have to run a new stadium, so I guess they would be in profit then?
Or maybe not....
My point is, (and include Burnley becasue they announced a 4.4mil loss before a transfer) that no football club wants to release an out and out profit as it encourages fans to demand more spending and prevents the club from increasing prices.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes but i would say our wages bill was the same or less than Burnley's. So our loss was down to transfers then? Either way, its a big difference. I wonder if our loss was larger than any clubs that came down from the PL. What did Sheffield Wednesday do? SW Have no parachute payments, have about the same attendances maybe less.Didn't have to run a new stadium, so I guess they would be in profit then?
Or maybe not....
My point is, (and include Burnley becasue they announced a 4.4mil loss before a transfer) that no football club wants to release an out and out profit as it encourages fans to demand more spending and prevents the club from increasing prices.

While there is a certain amount of "manipulation" possible with the accounts there are still some fairly strict rules that have to be followed. I don't genuinely believe a vast majority "purposely" show a loss - a football club, as it stands today, is not structured to be a profitable business ( bar a very small handful ).

Anyway, we won't know what the relative truth is until the accounts are published.

 

[Captain Sensible]

While there is a certain amount of "manipulation" possible with the accounts there are still some fairly strict rules that have to be followed. I don't genuinely believe a vast majority "purposely" show a loss - a football club, as it stands today, is not structured to be a profitable business ( bar a very small handful ).

Anyway, we won't know what the relative truth is until the accounts are published.

You are right, but even then when the accounts are published, what is included and what isnt'? FFP is the same, some things have to be included and some don't. I am glad people don't just take PB's announcement as face value and some are questioning the foundations. We have been duped before and then it was too late and we had an almighty battle to save our club. I'm not saying Barber is Bellotti or Bloom is Archer, but never stop scruitinising or questioning. Complacency will lead to Portsmouth. We must keep the guardians of our club on their toes.

 

[wakeytom]

While there is a certain amount of "manipulation" possible with the accounts there are still some fairly strict rules that have to be followed. I don't genuinely believe a vast majority "purposely" show a loss - a football club, as it stands today, is not structured to be a profitable business ( bar a very small handful ).

Anyway, we won't know what the relative truth is until the accounts are published.

Based on the value of the stadium with all the extras etc could there not be a large amount of depreciation?

 

[Turkey]

Yes but i would say our wages bill was the same or less than Burnley's. So our loss was down to transfers then? Either way, its a big difference. I wonder if our loss was larger than any clubs that came down from the PL. What did Sheffield Wednesday do? SW Have no parachute payments, have about the same attendances maybe less.Didn't have to run a new stadium, so I guess they would be in profit then?
Or maybe not....
My point is, (and include Burnley becasue they announced a 4.4mil loss before a transfer) that no football club wants to release an out and out profit as it encourages fans to demand more spending and prevents the club from increasing prices.

Edited my post, Burnley received an 8m parachute payment.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think an £8mill loss for Year 1 of the Amex is a decent outcome. I reckon our stewarding and transport costs will be massive, and I bet our wage bill will be much higher with Kucsczak, Bruno, Bridge, Hammond, Crofts, Dobbie and Spanish Dave in the squad.

The business case for selling CMS and giving Hoskins the chance to replace him is a powerful one. It's a tough call because to put bums on seats you need action and goals.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Based on the value of the stadium with all the extras etc could there not be a large amount of depreciation?

I'm probably wrong but I thought the stadium was owned by a different limited company than BHAFC Ltd ?

 

[wakeytom]

I'm probably wrong but I thought the stadium was owned by a different limited company than BHAFC Ltd ?

I was trying to work that out, they could also be consolidated group accounts or have moved assets?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Edited my post, Burnley received an 8m parachute payment.

Portsmouth are also due a final parachute payment , if they go into liquidation the money goes back to the PL

 

[CheeseRolls]

I was trying to make sense of the Leeds financial position a couple of weeks ago. They are supposed to have invested heavily in non-playing facilities at Elland Road, which are not yet generating revenue. No idea how this adds up and the cynic in me, thinks this is an overpriced asset that Bates will use to justify his take from the financial sale of the club.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I was trying to work that out, they could also be consolidated group accounts or have moved assets?

Could be all sorts of things. Is it the holdco accounts? Presumably TB has funded with Directors Loans, does these carry cash interest or does he roll it? Is the Amex on the balance sheet?

Like many have said, a bottom line loss is a meaningless number unless you understand the balance sheet, cash flow and P& L behind it.

 

[wakeytom]

Just looked at last years accounts and the Balance sheet does clearly show the ground so given that there could be some depreciation in the losses on the accounts last year which were posted on here it shows depreciation over 50 years so c£2m a year on that, also motor vehicles 25% so we probably bought some moving to the new ground fixtures and fitting 25-33% so there could be alot in that and training ground improvements at 25% but we could have also spent money on the training ground. The intangibles were c£2m so maybe £500k could be taken up for that so that could be £2.5m straight away on simple depreciation

 

[wakeytom]

Could be all sorts of things. Is it the holdco accounts? Presumably TB has funded with Directors Loans, does these carry cash interest or does he roll it? Is the Amex on the balance sheet?

Like many have said, a bottom line loss is a meaningless number unless you understand the balance sheet, cash flow and P& L behind it.

Sorry was already saying most of that at the same time you said that the only thing I dont think will be on there is interest as the loan for the ground was non interest bearing

 

[seagully]

Just looked at last years accounts and the Balance sheet does clearly show the ground so given that there could be some depreciation in the losses on the accounts last year which were posted on here it shows depreciation over 50 years so c£2m a year on that, also motor vehicles 25% so we probably bought some moving to the new ground fixtures and fitting 25-33% so there could be alot in that and training ground improvements at 25% but we could have also spent money on the training ground. The intangibles were c£2m so maybe £500k could be taken up for that so that could be £2.5m straight away on simple depreciation

That's all well and good, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but how much did the club spend on this costume?

 

[Lower West Stander]

Man Utd's equity story is now in the marketing and advertising space. Matchday revenue (admittedly much higher than ours) is the cash cow. Say what you like but they are a very well run club who operate as a profitable business.

Now the Amex is up and running, I think this is how TB expects the business model to work. It will take time and we need success on the pitch but in the greater scheme of things the loss is small.

I don't think Leeds are anywhere near as forward thinking. They just rely on a decent fan base, shut their eyes and hope.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

They're a limited company - of course they do !

If the club deliberately publish incorrect figures the Directors could go be prosecuted and possibly even jailed.

 

[clapham_gull]

It is all to do with getting us fans used to price rises and new costs.

Googling financial fair play may give you the answer.

 

[Fef]

Load of shite.

Short and to the point.
And quite correct too!

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I'm probably wrong but I thought the stadium was owned by a different limited company than BHAFC Ltd ?

The Community Stadium Ltd - Company number: 04612364? Set up in 2002, the original shareholders were Knight, Perry and Chapman; I think it's now entirely owned by the club (and can't be arsed to check).

 

[wakeytom]

The Community Stadium Ltd - Company number: 04612364? Set up in 2002, the original shareholders were Knight, Perry and Chapman; I think it's now entirely owned by the club (and can't be arsed to check).

Please see my note above about it been on the balance sheet