If Sheffield United get promoted.... (merged with other Ched Evans threads)

[Sheebo]

Edna, you raise some good and interesting points. Fact is, the most important point you raised, is that the jury have had loads of info that nobody on here knows about. Everyone is speculating - and the information we do have does make for speculation as it's rather odd.

 

[Wilko]

I'd have thought, as a bloke, if you were that out of it, then the necessary equipment to perform the act of rape wouldn't be functioning sufficiently for it to be possible...

Surely, SURELY most people on here can see its reasonable to establish whether a woman is happy to continue before doing the deed? It doesn't mean getting it in writing, of course not, but I just can't believe anyone would think having sex with an unconscious or semi-conscious woman in any way suggests she's given an informed consent to it.

No, I completely agree with this and I am sure that 99% of blokes would not even consider doing anything with a girl in a very bad state. The worry is that sometimes both parties are 'out of it', I am sure we have all awoken at some point in our lives with a fuzzy head, minor blackout and possibly a random lying next to you!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Unfortunately there have been so many 'cry-wolf' stories by celeb wannabe girls trying to make a quick buck that it now leaves the public suspicious of any case. That is the real shame, that those false cases make it THAT much harder for a genuine victim (that has had to go through the awful trauma) to convince the public.

Trust me. There are far, far, far more unconvicted rapists out there than there are poor, wrongly arrested footballers (or any other profession).

It's a huge myth that there's this army of malevolent females seeking to entrap innocent men. The sad thing is, on the rare occasions that does happen, it makes massive headlines and perpetuates the myth further, leading more and more people to fall for it. That's why plenty of guilty men are never charged, or are acquitted in court. What other type of crime permits the accused to question the victim's decency and all sorts in court? The accused know that all they have to do to put an element of doubt in the jury's mind is to claim that the victim was some kind of habitual slag.

Even people like Anthony Imiela, a convicted sex attacker who's now serving life for raping strangers, was able to stand in court and claim the women came up to him and asked him for sex, and question their past.

The case today doesn't strike me remotely as a money-making exercise in any case. Would you even recognise Ched Evans or Clayton McDonald if they walked up to you in the street?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

No, I completely agree with this and I am sure that 99% of blokes would not even consider doing anything with a girl in a very bad state. The worry is that sometimes both parties are 'out of it', I am sure we have all awoken at some point in our lives with a fuzzy head, minor blackout and possibly a random lying next to you!

Speak for yourself

 

[Wilko]

Trust me. There are far, far, far more unconvicted rapists out there than there are poor, wrongly arrested footballers (or any other profession).

It's a huge myth that there's this army of malevolent females seeking to entrap innocent men. The sad thing is, on the rare occasions that does happen, it makes massive headlines and perpetuates the myth further, leading more and more people to fall for it. That's why plenty of guilty men are never charged, or are acquitted in court. What other type of crime permits the accused to question the victim's decency and all sorts in court? The accused know that all they have to do to put an element of doubt in the jury's mind is to claim that the victim was some kind of habitual slag.

Even people like Anthony Imiela, a convicted sex attacker who's now serving life for raping strangers, was able to stand in court and claim the women came up to him and asked him for sex, and question their past.

The case today doesn't strike me remotely as a money-making exercise in any case. Would you even recognise Ched Evans or Clayton McDonald if they walked up to you in the street?

I bow down to your superior knowledge, interesting to hear the views from someone in the force. Just goes to show really as I just see what I read in the media, that the 'cry wolf' cases perversely gain more column inches than the genuine cases. I am sure there is more about this case to follow that we have yet to hear.

 

[Wilko]

Speak for yourself

 

[Merlot]

Glad he's gone down. Think the law needs changing thou. Rapists need a prison sentence but also castrated as they will think twice before committing such a vile crime.

 

[janee]

Edna speaking much sense - perhaps because as a woman and a law officer - she can see it all more clearly. Some of the blokes on here are complete idiots!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It was McDonald who text Evans "found a girl". It was McDonald who obviously got her in bed and it was McDonald who invited Evans into the room. I'm confused? If evans raped the girl then how comes McDonald doesn't get any punishment for co-ordinating the whole thing? These judges use as much common sense as a pencil sharpener.

It's not the judge who decides whether an individual is guilty of the charge that is in front of the court. And it's not the judge who decides what charges should be brought.

 

[Stat Brother]

There is definitely an underlying 'cultural' problem, lying below the nasty, throw away the key, harrowing predators.

Men who think they can get/have anything any time, with money and possibly limited paternal influence, plus 24hour no holds barred porn.
Women who's empowerment has left them throwing up in the street wearing very little, at 2am, causing just as much work for Edna et al.


In writing that I feel about 60 years old and from The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It's also perfectly conceivable that the jury considered that McDonald genuinely thought that he was having consensual sex (because the woman had gone to the room with him), but, by the time Evans joined in, it was perfectly obvious to anyone that the sex wouldn't have been consensual.

I'd prefer to say, though, that we don't know - because we didn't follow the whole trial. All we got was what the journalists chose to pick out - and their version may well have been influenced by a bit of guesswork that assumed the outcome would be either that both men would be found guilty, or both would be found not guilty.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

There are unanswered questions though.

The judge says that video proves she was too drunk to consent. So why is only Evans guilty?

The blokes claim she consented. She says she can't remember. Where's the innocence until proven guilty rule?

The case smells rotten. Sounds like a deal was done to take down the more famous player.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Why did Evans have a key to Macdonalds room, or did he climb off and open the door for him?

 

[sir albion]

I get he feeling this was all planned although it's a confusing one for sure.

 

[Stat Brother]

Why did Evans have a key to Macdonalds room, or did he climb off and open the door for him?

He didn't get in through the window, as it was already crowded there.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Yes they can, because to remember nothing rather suggests someone was in no position to give consent. I would venture that if you're a bloke and there's a woman lying pretty much unconscious on a bed, it would be an outrageous violation to think its acceptable to have sex with her.

Let's turn this around, say you (a bloke) went out and got absolutely twatted, drinking, I don't know, ten pints. A bloke approaches you (you probably don't know he's a footballer but I'm trying to replicate the scenario here) and you end up going back to a hotel with him. Before anyone says "why would I go back to a hotel room with a strange bloke?", you're pissed as a fart, and we all make decisions when pissed that we don't understand when sober.

The next thing you know, it's morning, you're naked in a hotel bed and you realise to your horror that one or more of these guys has had sex with you while you were out of it.

Did you consent? No. Did you remember specifically saying no? Probably not I'd guess.

Would you consider what they'd done to you acceptable then, if you couldn't remember saying no?

I don't know about you, but 3 times in my life I've got so drunk that I can't remember what I did the night before. My friends have a lot of fun telling me what I did, I certainly wasn't passed out cold.

I've also been with people so drunk that they can't remember what they did the next morning, but they were talking and importantly, answering questions. Hypothetically, this girl could easily have answered yes and not remember. Is it the case that 'yes', said when paralytically drunk, is not consent? If so, very unfair for anyone caught in that situation.

 

[tiberious]

Yes they can, because to remember nothing rather suggests someone was in no position to give consent. I would venture that if you're a bloke and there's a woman lying pretty much unconscious on a bed, it would be an outrageous violation to think its acceptable to have sex with her.

Let's turn this around, say you (a bloke) went out and got absolutely twatted, drinking, I don't know, ten pints. A bloke approaches you (you probably don't know he's a footballer but I'm trying to replicate the scenario here) and you end up going back to a hotel with him. Before anyone says "why would I go back to a hotel room with a strange bloke?", you're pissed as a fart, and we all make decisions when pissed that we don't understand when sober.

The next thing you know, it's morning, you're naked in a hotel bed and you realise to your horror that one or more of these guys has had sex with you while you were out of it.

Did you consent? No. Did you remember specifically saying no? Probably not I'd guess.

Would you consider what they'd done to you acceptable then, if you couldn't remember saying no?

Unfortunately when somebody is drunk they cannot consent to sex so it is by the word of the law rape there is no middle ground.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Grim reading on Twitter...

Sophie Andrew ‏ @sophieandrew
That ched evans story sounds like bullshit! That girl went to the hotel for one reason!! #moneygrabber

Ste O'Hara ‏ @datdurzerokid
So Ched Evans gets 5 years for consensual sex with a stupid slut who got herself too wasted to say no, and then regretted it in the morning?

Plenty of people voicing support for the convicted rapist.

 

[Driver8]

I have just been talking to one of this girls acquaintances (friend of my daughter) and apparently it is not the first time she has made such a claim. Make of that what you will.

 

[Bhafcman]

He didn't get in through the window, as it was already crowded there.

I'm sorry but