If everyone is so skint, why can't the Government just print more money? Discuss!

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

If everyone's skint they just need to post on the Wolves/Poyet thread to be in with a chance of winning £10. This could help solve the country's problems!

Apart from seagullondon, who will be filing for bankruptcy.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

To me it seems that the biggest problem with the current system is the one that they are attempting to tackle - that the downside risks to these inherently risky activities had been removed (or, more accurately, were borne by the taxpayer rather than the banks) as the banks were 'too large to fail'. I like to think that, once the risks are accurately shared by those taking the decisions, a 'safer' way of banking may come about. Alternatively, if they want to continue to play silly buggers they can do and we can watch them collapse when things go wrong.

HMG is attempting to tackle this - really? Conceptually, what's so difficult and time consuming (2017?); just make it clear that you'll only guarantee the retail deposits and leave the "shareholders" to ponder on the more risky stuff.

 

[sten_super]

Apart from seagullondon, who will be filing for bankruptcy.

What about if he applies for administration, and then offers his creditors 1p in the pound... then everyone will be stuffed.

HMG is attempting to tackle this - really? Conceptually, what's so difficult and time consuming (2017?); just make it clear that you'll only guarantee the retail deposits and leave the "shareholders" to ponder on the more risky stuff.

The same thought had occurred to me, but to be honest I'm not familiar enough with the legislation or the potential impacts to know. I agree that conceptually there's no great difficulty - maybe it's just the continued sway that the banks hold over the political process?

 

[seagullondon]

Apart from seagullondon, who will be filing for bankruptcy.

just call me Greece

 

[seagullondon]

What about if he applies for administration, and then offers his creditors 1p in the pound... then everyone will be stuffed.

My plan exactly!

 

[BHAFC_Pandapops]

If you print more money, more people have a lot more money, buy more things.

Demand goes up

The need for products rises

prices go up, as production is more stressed with a lot more demand.

at least i think its like that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Oh certainly, and I should have clarified that I get why it is (or at least was) the basis of many economies. Whilst obviously the beauty quantity comes in to play, but it's really the rarity that makes it worthwhile.

Of course the problem with it being rare is well... that it's rare! When you trade directly in gold (or other precious metals) you run out of it at some point. This happened with some silver standard economies during the imperialist days, money was off in the colonies and it it became tricky to get at home (I think Spain had a real issue with this before they switched to gold).

Realistically the only monetary system that doesn't make your head hurt if you think about it too closely is barter. None of this "This piece of paper represents this much wealth" business, you trade something useful for something else useful. Want my pig? You best give me that sheep then, a sheep might come in handy!

Yes indeed. It almost goes under the radar that one of our greatest scientists Sir Isaac Newton whose principles still form some of the basics of physics, was actually a crazed alchemist first, physicist second. While his 'laws' are no doubt his most famous achievement, he helped establish Britain's financial might, not through an acquirement of wealth, but as Master of the Mint Newton moved the Pound Sterling de facto from the silver standard to the gold standard by setting the bimetallic relationship between gold coins and the silver penny in favour of gold. This caused silver sterling coin to be melted and shipped out of Britain.

It's actually said he wasn't knighted for services to science at all, or his work with the mint, just the fact he became a political pawn. Amazing really. He also slid a darning needle right to the back of his eye socket for an experiment. An amazing genius.

 

[halbpro]

Yes indeed. It almost goes under the radar that one of our greatest scientists Sir Isaac Newton whose principles still form some of the basics of physics, was actually a crazed alchemist first, physicist second. While his 'laws' are no doubt his most famous achievement, he helped establish Britain's financial might, not through an acquirement of wealth, but as Master of the Mint Newton moved the Pound Sterling de facto from the silver standard to the gold standard by setting the bimetallic relationship between gold coins and the silver penny in favour of gold. This caused silver sterling coin to be melted and shipped out of Britain.

It's actually said he wasn't knighted for services to science at all, or his work with the mint, just the fact he became a political pawn. Amazing really. He also slid a darning needle right to the back of his eye socket for an experiment. An amazing genius.

I only found out about the alchemy a few years ago, they really should teach us that about him. Kids love a good story, and his is brilliant in a "Wow it really is a fine line between genius and insanity" kind of way.

Must say though our current system, although confusing, is probably the best. Backing a nation's currency with the nation itself (or at least essentially that) is a solid approach but one that does take a bit of a logical leap to come up with. The realisation that money is only worth what we're told it is does come as a bit of a shock, and is probably the main reason I could never study economics.

 

[Rich Suvner]

Who does?

people in debt can do well out of inflation - as it effectively reduces the value of the debt owed.

i believe that some countries have actually increased levels of currency in circulation to effectively inflate themselves out of debt in the past.

however, the side-effects of this, and subsequent loss of confidence from investors (whose assets reduce in value) are unpredicatable and in many uncases undesirable.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I only found out about the alchemy a few years ago, they really should teach us that about him. Kids love a good story, and his is brilliant in a "Wow it really is a fine line between genius and insanity" kind of way.

Must say though our current system, although confusing, is probably the best. Backing a nation's currency with the nation itself (or at least essentially that) is a solid approach but one that does take a bit of a logical leap to come up with. The realisation that money is only worth what we're told it is does come as a bit of a shock, and is probably the main reason I could never study economics.

That whole principle (among many others) feature in a fictional trilogy of books called the Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson, which I got to say are amazing. Starting with Quicksilver, these are rip roaring novels set in the 16/1700's but taking on topics such as the birth of modern day banking, share dealing, power, currency, the birth of the Royal Society, Hooke, Newton, Liebniz, Wren, all within amazing plots of piracy, power, corruption etc. I can't recommend them enough.

 

[halbpro]

That whole principle (among many others) feature in a fictional trilogy of books called the Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson, which I got to say are amazing. Starting with Quicksilver, these are rip roaring novels set in the 16/1700's but taking on topics such as the birth of modern day banking, share dealing, power, currency, the birth of the Royal Society, Hooke, Newton, Liebniz, Wren, all within amazing plots of piracy, power, corruption etc. I can't recommend them enough.

That series is where I got interested about all of this! Fantastic series, although a bit weighty.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That series is where I got interested about all of this! Fantastic series, although a bit weighty.

I was the same I've got to say. I'm going to make my way through them again at some point I reckon. I haven't come across a character as good as Jack Shaftoe since!

Did you try Anathem, Stephenson's novel after the Baroque Cycle? Equally as weighty, but equally fascinating with regard to the subjects he explores. I found a bit tough going to start with, but again an amazing book.

 

[halbpro]

I was the same I've got to say. I'm going to make my way through them again at some point I reckon. I haven't come across a character as good as Jack Shaftoe since!

Did you try Anathem, Stephenson's novel after the Baroque Cycle? Equally as weighty, but equally fascinating with regard to the subjects he explores. I found a bit tough going to start with, but again an amazing book.

I think I have it, but haven't read it. I've got Snow Crash (which is silly, but I love), Interface (which I thought was f***ing terrible), The Diamond Age (awesome) and Cryptonomicon which has some links to the Baroque Cycle, and enjoyed them all, but never really got into Anathem.

 

[goodoldsussexbythesea]

Hyper inflation, mass unemployment, higher crime rates, no biggy.

 

[marshy68]

What do you think Quantitative Easing to the tune of £325,000,000,000 since March 2009 is then?

correct

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think I have it, but haven't read it. I've got Snow Crash (which is silly, but I love), Interface (which I thought was f***ing terrible), The Diamond Age (awesome) and Cryptonomicon which has some links to the Baroque Cycle, and enjoyed them all, but never really got into Anathem.

Ha, fancy bumping into another Stephenson fan! Read Snow Crash twice, like you love it, The Diamond Age - wow, what a book, and yes Cryptonomicon which actually got me into being really protective about my data! Anathem is worth a go it really is, the conclusion of the story at the end is incredible. I see his latest 'Reamde' is out now as well.

 

[jackalbion]

if you know your german history correctly they decided to print more money and then the hyper inflation cause disstability in their goverment. citizens were unsure who to vote for and went for a man you might know called adolf hitler or in our case it will be mr nick griffin and they caused a facist goverment killing 6 million jews and started WW2 thats why not

 

[Randsta]

Why doesn't the government kill people randomly - would save a packet!

 

[Philzo-93]

cos printnig many for no other reaon than to bolster the economy makes it worthless

When people collected their wages in wheel barrels people would nick the wheel barrel as it was more valuable than its contents

 

[BHAFANS]

What effect would the government producing more money have on the economy?

Lol