How the Rich Beat the Taxman

[Dandyman]

ok i'll give you a couple of clues, its very easy to advocate marxism for everyone else, when you personally have the wealth to afford a house that is worth £340,000, a lot of money now, let alone 1994,why didnt he live in social housing? , all property is theft etc etc and still no condemnation of the milbands tax avoidance either.

All property is theft is quote from Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, a French anarchist, who was criticised by Marx.

Ralph Milliband served for 3 years in the Royal Navy before graduating from the LSE. He went on to become a very successful academic and writer. The House in Primrose Hill was bought in 1965, when Camden was a far more affordable place than it is now. I suspect most London Seagulls who have owned property for a while now have homes that they could not not afford to buy from scratch in the current market. What does that prove other than an over-inflated housing market ?

The story of the Millibands and Inheritance tax is here:

Journalists in glass houses target Ed Miliband | Ian Jack | Comment is free | The Guardian

I think people should pay tax if they want to live in a civilised country and having not voted Labour in a General Election for a decade don't hold any brief for it now.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Who is Ralph Miliband................presumably you mean Adolf Miliband?

An interesting - and wildly misfired - attempt to slur the Miliband family?

Anyways, his name was Adolphe.




And when did living with your mum become a tax dodge?

 

[ILOVEBHA]

This is all i will say about Tax avoidance
Lord Clyde said in the case of Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services v Inland Revenue in 1929

"No man in the country is under the smallest obligation, moral or other, so to arrange his legal relations to his business or property as to enable the Inland Revenue to put the largest possible shovel in his stores. The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

HMRC try to muddy the waters between legal tax avoidance and illegal tax evasion, however we should always remember that it is Parliament that sets the laws and HMRC and tax advisers merely try to interpret them !!

 

[Tooting Gull]

Despite my views on the issue, I would agree that the programme last night was high on emotive imagery, but covered mainly people indulging in currently legal tax avoidance.

But that isn't really the point. Bushy talks about hypocrisy. The real hypocrisy is people like that Mitchell clown talking in public about being AGAINST the wealthy "squirelling away their millions" in offshore tax havens, and then in private doing the exact opposite.

The bottom line is it might be legal at the moment, but with all the "we're all in it together" bollocks being spouted by the millionaire Old Etonians it is morally indefensible to have places where the uber-rich can avoid even more tax, and those loopholes should be tightened.

 

[BLOCK F]

How many people have paid a builder, plumber, electrician etc cash in hand?

Most people I would reckon.
Lots of hypocrisy being spouted on this topic today....plus the daily bashing of the 'rich' by the usual suspects.
God knows what the 'black economy 'is worth,but I reckon that if by some miracle tax was paid on all the undeclared income in the country,a phenomenal amount would be raised and this would dwarf any amount fiddled by so called benefit cheats.Trouble is, the Government of the day would probably waste it and there would be less money for the avoiders to circulate in the real world!
Thre is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance,so you can't blame anyone rich or of more modest means from legally avoiding paying anymore tax than they have to.
Good thing we have a rich chairman isn't it.....wonder what his tax arrangements are like?

 

[Bold Seagull]

My accountant sat down with me, and when I went onto the subject of reducing my tax where possible, upon one suggestion he said "Do you know the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion?" upon my blank look he gave the answer "The thickness of a cell wall". Good advice I thought.

 

[ILOVEBHA]

I dont understand why it is morally indefensible for someone to legaly not to pay almost all their earnings in tax to a government who actually set the tax laws.

 

[ILOVEBHA]

My accountant sat down with me, and when I went onto the subject of reducing my tax where possible, upon one suggestion he said "Do you know the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion?" upon my blank look he gave the answer "The thickness of a cell wall". Good advice I thought.

Looks like you should change accountants as this has been going on for decades and as far as i know none of our clients are currently residing at her majesties pleasure in fact they are all enjoying their earnings.

 

[ILOVEBHA]

Most people I would reckon.
Lots of hypocrisy being spouted on this topic today....plus the daily bashing of the 'rich' by the usual suspects.
God knows what the 'black economy 'is worth,but I reckon that if by some miracle tax was paid on all the undeclared income in the country,a phenomenal amount would be raised and this would dwarf any amount fiddled by so called benefit cheats.Trouble is, the Government of the day would probably waste it and there would be less money for the avoiders to circulate in the real world!
Thre is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance,so you can't blame anyone rich or of more modest means from legally avoiding paying anymore tax than they have to.
Good thing we have a rich chairman isn't it.....wonder what his tax arrangements are like?

Here Here well said.

 

[Simster]

I dont understand why it is morally indefensible for someone to legaly not to pay almost all their earnings in tax to a government who actually set the tax laws.

How about just their fair share, as opposed to "almost all"?

How much of a £1.2bn dividend would you say should be taxable?

 

[Tooting Gull]

There are people on here who think this is all fine. My question to them is simple. If it is all so okay, why in just last night's programme did we see David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Osbourne, Danny Alexander and Andrew Mitchell ALL saying in speeches that they wanted to stop the practice, or at least limit it?

No politician says anything unless there is votes in it, so they clearly all realise there is a very large body of opinion that is not happy seeing their own benefits and public services slashed while this is going on.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Looks like you should change accountants as this has been going on for decades and as far as i know none of our clients are currently residing at her majesties pleasure in fact they are all enjoying their earnings.

I think you've missed the point there

 

[ILOVEBHA]

I think you've missed the point there

Aha i have re read your post and i see your point.
Million apologies

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Lets just remember that "We are all in this together"

 

[Bold Seagull]

Aha i have re read your post and i see your point.
Million apologies

I'm all for tax avoidance!!!

 

[User removed 4]

Ralph Miliband - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as you can see this man was one of the leading social science academics of the 60's, 70's & 80's who wrote several books that were sold to generations of social science students.

What part do you think is hypocritical

a) that he used the fruit of his original thoughts to pay for a mortgage that by the time of his death had through inflation risen in value to £350,000. Something that was beyond his control.

b) he left this to his loved ones so that they wouldnt be homeless after his death.

I understand that you may resent his political ideas but to attack a man for trying to bring up his family as a hypocrite seems a bit small minded.

What part is hypocritical ? both to be honest, as a marxist why didnt he give the 'fruit of his original thoughts ' to the party or the homeless instead of buying a house in an area that despite the efforts of some on here to depict otherwise, has always been relatively well to do,or the cottage in oxfordshire,or the basement flat around the corner that his wife bought for her mother , and the tax avoidance upon hs death is exactly what would have done ,except i make no attempt to be holier than thou about it, whichever way you attempt to paint the picture he was a typical, do as i say not as i do marxist, a bit like that other great millionaire socialist paul weller, he of 'eton rifles' fame, who has educated everyone of his children at private school, or the bassist in the same band bruce foxton who sent his son to which school ? yes,eton!

 

[Chicken Runner61]

What part is hypocritical ? both to be honest, as a marxist why didnt he give the 'fruit of his original thoughts ' to the party or the homeless instead of buying a house in an area that despite the efforts of some on here to depict otherwise, has always been relatively well to do,or the cottage in oxfordshire,or the basement flat around the corner that his wife bought for her mother , and the tax avoidance upon hs death is exactly what would have done ,except i make no attempt to be holier than thou about it, whichever way you attempt to paint the picture he was a typical, do as i say not as i do marxist, a bit like that other great millionaire socialist paul weller, he of 'eton rifles' fame, who has educated everyone of his children at private school, or the bassist in the same band bruce foxton who sent his son to which school ? yes,eton!

Actually Bushy -Whilst I agree that Weller might have had leanings towards Socialism way back and find it strange he sent his kids to private school he has since New Labour/New Tories came about distanced himself from any particular allegiance stating that they are one and the same.

Also he might not have had a whole say in his kids education seeing as he got divorced! That might have been his ex!

 

[User removed 4]

Actually Bushy -Whilst I agree that Weller might have had leanings towards Socialism way back and find it strange he sent his kids to private school he has since New Labour/New Tories came about distanced himself from any particular allegiance stating that they are one and the same.

Also he might not have had a whole say in his kids education seeing as he got divorced! That might have been his ex!

Actually he did have a big say in his kids education, one of his reasons behind the decision to send his kds to private school was that if they attended the local comprehensive they would ' end up speaking like ali g,and i aint having it '. As for his lack of alignment politically since the advent of new labour , do you honestly think its because he has moved further to the right ?

 

[sten_super]

Good (IMO) article from David Mitchell on the topic in the Guardian yesterday...

David Mitchell: You can't blame the rich for paying as little tax as possible. I do the same | Comment is free | The Observer

I agree wholeheartedly with his premise that to demonise people for minimising the tax they pay is completely missing the point, especially with regards to Osbourne, when what people should be criticising is that he isn't removing these loopholes.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Thought this bounce was going to be Barry Fry related