how safe is that taxi driver?

[desprateseagull]

BBC NEWS | England | Criminals passing the taxi driver test

bbc report shows many taxi drivers in west midlands had criminal records..

i cant belive the council dismiss concerns by saying one driver had no complaints since passing.. not quite the point!

i do hope Brighton/hove licence has tougher checks..

 

[Harty]

Something which as the parent of a teenage daughter who uses taxis in Worthing has me thinking.

Worthing Borough Council operate a scheme whereby all potential cab drivers in the town are CRB checked, this invloves going back over the last 5 years and making the necessary checks.

How can you thoroughly check a taxi driver who may not have been living in this country for all of that time?

 

[strings]

Something nice from my loal council:

In Wolverhampton, a man who between 1985 and 2005 had carried out more than 30 offences was, in 2006, deemed suitable to become a taxi driver.

A spokesman for Wolverhampton City Council said the licensing of private hire and hackney carriages was taken seriously.

"The council has received no complaints regarding this driver since the private licence was granted in 2006," the spokesman said.

"Whoever is putting them in a position of taxi driving, with those sort of convictions, wants their heads feeling"

 

[Lord Bracknell]

BBC NEWS | England | Criminals passing the taxi driver test

bbc report shows many taxi drivers in west midlands had criminal records..

i cant belive the council dismiss concerns by saying one driver had no complaints since passing.. not quite the point!

i do hope Brighton/hove licence has tougher checks..

This will be an interesting story as it unfolds. No doubt the press will be up in arms, demanding TIGHTER checks.

How different from last year's big story about Criminal Records Bureau checks, where the press was up in arms, demanding that parents who volunteer to help their kids' out of school activities should be EXEMPT from the same CRB checks.

 

[Harty]

This will be an interesting story as it unfolds. No doubt the press will be up in arms, demanding TIGHTER checks.

How different from last year's big story about Criminal Records Bureau checks, where the press was up in arms, demanding that parents who volunteer to help their kids's out of school activities should be EXEMPT from the same CRB checks.

But Lord B the CRB system needs seriously looking at, clearly with these cab drivers it doesn't really get enforced, yet I end up having to have three seperate ones to be a youth football manager, hospice trustee and school governor, for which all three organisations get charged for the same piece of paper, not exactly fair is it?

 

[Gwylan]

But Lord B the CRB system needs seriously looking at, clearly with these cab drivers it doesn't really get enforced, yet I end up having to have three seperate ones to be a youth football manager, hospice trustee and school governor, for which all three organisations get charged for the same piece of paper, not exactly fair is it?

Are they not being enforced? As I understand it, the checks at Wolverhampton picked up that they had criminal offences yet they got their licences. Personally, I have no problems with that - if they convictions for violence or for serious driving offences then they shouldn't be denied a licence. Isn't it better that someone earns money by driving a cab than by being a burglar or a drug-dealer?

I agree with the inefficiency of the CRB though. When we adopted kids, we both had to undergo a CRB even though Mrs Gwylan had had a CRB check just months before for her school job.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It's easy to get wound up about taxi drivers "with criminal records". But without the detail, nobody really knows what the problem is.

You can't run a system like taxi licensing that excludes everyone who gets a positive CRB disclosure.

Someone who received a police caution for shoplifting 20 years ago, when they were 13 years old, has a "criminal record" that shows up on an enhanced CRB check. A CRB check on the Yorkshire Ripper will also show his criminal record.

Somewhere between the two is where the line is drawn. But where exactly? One of the problems is that each licensing authority takes its own decision on where to draw its own line.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I think there is a difference between Taxi Drivers and positions where you are in a position of trust over children.

I don't think that having a criminal record should be a bar to you becoming a taxi driver. Certainly if you have convictions for violent offences (especially against strangers) then it shouldn't happen but if 5 years ago you did a stretch for fraud, does that really make you a bad choice to drive a taxi?

We need to think about how we rehabilitate criminals. If they stand no chance of getting a job, then they are much more likely to get back into crime.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

But Lord B the CRB system needs seriously looking at, clearly with these cab drivers it doesn't really get enforced, yet I end up having to have three seperate ones to be a youth football manager, hospice trustee and school governor, for which all three organisations get charged for the same piece of paper, not exactly fair is it?

This is one consequence of allowing different organisations to come to different decisions about where "the line" is drawn. The new arrangement that allows individuals an opportunity to register as "safe" with the Independent Safeguarding Authority is intended to help sort this problem out.

 

[Simster]

I think there is a difference between Taxi Drivers and positions where you are in a position of trust over children.

I don't think that having a criminal record should be a bar to you becoming a taxi driver. Certainly if you have convictions for violent offences (especially against strangers) then it shouldn't happen but if 5 years ago you did a stretch for fraud, does that really make you a bad choice to drive a taxi?

We need to think about how we rehabilitate criminals. If they stand no chance of getting a job, then they are much more likely to get back into crime.

I agree. The way forward is to determine which crimes would make a taxi driver unsafe and only bar them if they have been guilty of these.

I do think there is a problem unfolding with the way CRB checks works. I have had to have two seperate CRB clearances - one for school help, one for rugby coaching. Considering I am never the sole adult in either situation, I don't really understand how this amount of burocracy can be a good thing.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I agree. The way forward is to determine which crimes would make a taxi driver unsafe and only bar them if they have been guilty of these.

I do think there is a problem unfolding with the way CRB checks works. I have had to have two seperate CRB clearances - one for school help, one for rugby coaching. Considering I am never the sole adult in either situation, I don't really understand how this amount of burocracy can be a good thing.

"NEVER" the sole adult? What about when you are the last adult to go home at the end of a rugby coaching session?

Or what if you contrived to be the last adult?

 

[Bad Ash]

My girlfriend, being a TA, has mentioned CRB checks to me a few times. One thing I was suprised to hear was that they only return details of convictions, not of accusations, etc.

 

[Simster]

"NEVER" the sole adult? What about when you are the last adult to go home at the end of a rugby coaching session?

Or what if you contrived to be the last adult?

Fair enough, Ed. That's why I can see the benefit of the CRB check.

But is it a good use of resources to have individual clubs and organisations all paying separately for me to be CRB checked for working in slightly different environments?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I agree. The way forward is to determine which crimes would make a taxi driver unsafe and only bar them if they have been guilty of these.

I do think there is a problem unfolding with the way CRB checks works. I have had to have two seperate CRB clearances - one for school help, one for rugby coaching. Considering I am never the sole adult in either situation, I don't really understand how this amount of burocracy can be a good thing.

Because no council, school etc wants to have the next Ian Huntley, or other such case where someone inappropriate is close enough to children to cause them harm. As those sort of cases fade, I could see the system becoming less draconian.

Parents can also play a part by being less fearful of these types of things. E.g. I know that a few Xmases ago some parents didn't want the local paper to take pictures of their kid at the school carol concert because the picture would have been printed online!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Fair enough, Ed. That's why I can see the benefit of the CRB check.

But is it a good use of resources to have individual clubs and organisations all paying separately for me to be CRB checked for working in slightly different environments?

Schools might wish to exclude people who have convictions for theft. Rugby clubs might not be too bothered. That's why they do separate checks.

Although I have to agree that if you get a completely clean outcome from one CRB check, this should be valid across the board.

But for how long? Good practice these days seems to be that CRB checks are repeated every three years. Why three? That can allow a fair bit of recent criminality to go undetected for some time.

 

[Simster]

Schools might wish to exclude people who have convictions for theft. Rugby clubs might not be too bothered. That's why they do separate checks.

Although I have to agree that if you get a completely clean outcome from one CRB check, this should be valid across the board.

But for how long? Good practice these days seems to be that CRB checks are repeated every three years. Why three? That can allow a fair bit of recent criminality to go undetected for some time.

Agree with you on all of that, especially the last bit. And what about the thorny issue of repaying your debt to society and whether there should be a point in time at which the public should no longer have access to these records. For example, you may have been a serial shop lifter two decades ago. At some point, surely you've repaid your debt to society and this should cease to be public knowledge?

Actually I do have some grave misgivings about the wealth of information being made public knowledge. When I was kid, parents simply sent their kids to the local school. Nowadays, with ofsted ratings available to all, people can see results and they can be (mis)interpreted causing all manner of problems - all in the name of "choice", which as far as I'm concerned is simply a handy monikor for "absolving government agencies of responsibility" .

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Agree with you on all of that, especially the last bit. And what about the thorny issue of repaying your debt to society and whether there should be a point in time at which the public should no longer have access to these records. For example, you may have been a serial shop lifter two decades ago. At some point, surely you've repaid your debt to society and this should cease to be public knowledge?

As things are at the moment, in the organisation I work for, it's my personal decision as to whether a positive CRB disclosure results in dismissal or continued employment.

In the wider context, I feel slightly uncomfortable about that.

 

[Silent Bob]

The only good criminal is an unemployed criminal.

 

[xenophon]

My girlfriend, being a TA, has mentioned CRB checks to me a few times. One thing I was suprised to hear was that they only return details of convictions, not of accusations, etc.

Yeah, you've got move to somewhere like North Korea to get those included