how many games have we won that Vicente has started ?

[spoonie]

cant be that many ?

 

[The Buttery Biscuit Base]

What's your point?

 

[spoonie]

no point, I love watching him play but its strange we hardly ever win when our most talented player starts?

 

[ees complicated no?]

the question should be how much better have we played and how many shots has he had when he has played.

 

[Mr Burns]

Two I think.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

As he's only made 9 starts out of 43 games, how is this stat going to be useful ?

 

[Acker79]

Starts
v Ipswich loss 3-1
v Hull draw 0-0
v Blackpool loss 3-1
v Derby win 2-0
v Forest draw 1-1
v Middlesbrough draw 1-1
v Burnley loss 1-0
v Reading loss 1-0
v West Ham loss 6-0

Subs
v Leeds draw 3-3
v Palace loss 3-1
v Leicester win 1-0
v Leeds win 2-1
v Portsmouth win 2-0

v Liverpool loss 2-1
v Liverpool loss 6-1

 

[Sheebo]

It's most definately a coincidence. Anyone can see we are a far better team with Vicente in it than out of it. Pointless thread i'm afraid.

 

[Kumquat]

It's most definately a coincidence. Anyone can see we are a far better team with Vicente in it than out of it. Pointless thread i'm afraid.

Don't think it's pointless - the stats show that it's a fact that we tend to lose more when he has played. It may be a coincidence, but it happens to be an oddity given his outrageous quality. To be honest he has mostly started against good teams so that may also be partly why. But think Poyet just needs to settle on the right blend around him and system.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

Don't think it's pointless - the stats show that it's a fact that we tend to lose more when he has played.

Not at all. That doesn't take into account the teams we've played. How many losses "should have been" wins? Ipswich possibly.

 

[Kumquat]

Not at all. That doesn't take into account the teams we've played. How many losses "should have been" wins? Ipswich possibly.

Erm I think i did take into account the teams we played. The bit where I said "To be honest he has mostly started against good teams so that may also be partly why". Strange you pick the Ipswich game. from where I was sitting they fully deserved to beat us. CMS also said recently they were the best team in his view we'd played against. Anyway my point, the one you actually quoted as well, is that the stats show we have lost more times when he plays. I think there are probably all sorts of reasons why, but all i'm saying is that it is a fact and that to say it is pointless to debate, is, in my view, not true.

 

[Sheebo]

Don't think it's pointless - the stats show that it's a fact that we tend to lose more when he has played. It may be a coincidence, but it happens to be an oddity given his outrageous quality. To be honest he has mostly started against good teams so that may also be partly why. But think Poyet just needs to settle on the right blend around him and system.

This is true. Razak and Bridcutt would've been interesting and maybe the right blend IMO

 

[Fef]

Don't think it's pointless - the stats show that it's a fact that we tend to lose more when he has played. It may be a coincidence, but it happens to be an oddity given his outrageous quality. To be honest he has mostly started against good teams so that may also be partly why. But think Poyet just needs to settle on the right blend around him and system.

I'd hardly regard a sprinkling of games in the latter half of the season as being a sound basis for statistics. There are far too many variables (as you have pointed out) to be taken into account for any sound statistical analysis to be made. The outrageous quality to which you correctly refer will show up in the stats given time.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

Erm I think i did take into account the teams we played. The bit where I said "To be honest he has mostly started against good teams so that may also be partly why". Strange you pick the Ipswich game. from where I was sitting they fully deserved to beat us. CMS also said recently they were the best team in his view we'd played against. Anyway my point, the one you actually quoted as well, is that the stats show we have lost more times when he plays. I think there are probably all sorts of reasons why, but all i'm saying is that it is a fact and that to say it is pointless to debate, is, in my view, not true.

No, I see what you're saying; my reaction was, like you, that he's started against the strongest teams, teams we wouldn't necessarily have expected to win against - so the stats don't prove anything except that. In fairness, at the beginning of the season we would have expected to beat Ipswich (they are below mid-table at the moment), when I for one would never have expected to win against Hull, Blackpool, Reading, West Ham.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Don't think it's pointless - the stats show that it's a fact that we tend to lose more when he has played. It may be a coincidence, but it happens to be an oddity given his outrageous quality. To be honest he has mostly started against good teams so that may also be partly why. But think Poyet just needs to settle on the right blend around him and system.

The stats are based on a totally ridiculously small sample size that makes any useful analysis pointless. And as it's a team game trying to infer that 1 player is reponsible for the result makes it even less so.

You might as well ask 'how many goals have we conceded when Brezovan has been between the sticks?'

 

[Kumquat]

I'd hardly regard a sprinkling of games in the latter half of the season as being a sound basis for statistics. There are far too many variables (as you have pointed out) to be taken into account for any sound statistical analysis to be made. The outrageous quality to which you correctly refer will show up in the stats given time.

Agree with that. Though it wasn't just a sprinkling of games in the latter half. His fitness coincided with our bad run after Palace as well which is I think why it is such an oddity and why the question is being raised. But you could of course argue that without him we wold probably not have beaten either Portsmouth or Derby recently.

 

[terryberry1]

The stats don't lie, having said that i would still have him in the starting line up every week.

 

[Greavsey]

I think the starting stats are misleading and he clearly HAS to start when fit. However, I do think we miss the impetus that he's given us in the games that he has come on as a sub. The crowd and players raise their game when he comes on against tired opposition and he has made genuinely game changing contributions.

 

[Acker79]

The stats are based on a totally ridiculously small sample size that makes any useful analysis pointless. And as it's a team game trying to infer that 1 player is reponsible for the result makes it even less so.

You might as well ask 'how many goals have we conceded when Brezovan has been between the sticks?'

While I'm not arguing that the w/d/l stats mean a great deal with regard to Vicente (mostly because of the 'team game' thing), I hardly think 14 games out of so far 43 this season is a "ridiculously small sample" size. It's more than 30% of the season's games. That's a good sample size.

Brezovan has conceded 21 league goals, 8 cup goals.

 

[bluee]

I think the starting stats are misleading and he clearly HAS to start when fit. However, I do think we miss the impetus that he's given us in the games that he has come on as a sub. The crowd and players raise their game when he comes on against tired opposition and he has made genuinely game changing contributions.

Nice sharing dude, this is exactly the same information which was going on my mind.
Well according to me that winning game could be Two.. Am I right?