[Politics] How long will Brexit continue to dominate British Politics ?

[Thunder Bolt]

Not as long as it dominates some threads on NSC?

That's because it still isn't done. The government has postponed import tariffs for a fifth time, because they know the prices of food will rocket and they don't want the blame. At the moment, every import is arriving without any import tax. It's unfair on our own manufacturers and food producers.

Importing goods from the EU to UK | CBI

Business guidance: Importing goods to the UK

www.cbi.org.uk

Don't be surprised if they allow it just before the general election, so the incoming government gets the blame.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The housing crisis should dominate.

Brexit’s ill effects aren’t going away, but it doesn’t dominate just now. Hopefully anti Starmer Labour members/MP’s won’t use the subject as a way to disrupt his first term (pushing for an immediate referendum) when he’s going to have an awful load of cr@p to sort out.

I agree completely. Now, this housing crisis, where are we going to get the building trades we need ......... oh

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

But that's kinda my point. He didn't 'Get Brexit Done' at all. Not even badly. It's still on the 'to do' list, as evidenced by all sorts of things that are still be sorted/finalised.

I think I was aware you were being ironic….. or sarcastic, or something like that!

 

[Mellotron]

It will never be "done".

 

[Weststander]

I agree completely. Now, this housing crisis, where are we going to get the building trades we need ......... oh

Our apprenticeship system.
https://www.expatrio.com/studying-germany/german-education-system/german-dual-apprenticeship-system

 

[Pavilionaire]

I accept that Brexit happened, but where is all the stuff the Leavers said would happen afterwards, i.e. the free trade deals with all of the major economic powers in the world? Where is evidence of the 'Brexit dividend' now that we don't have to pay £350 million a week to the EU? Why is immigration at record highs? Where is the inward investment now we are 'free from the shackles of Europe'? Or is it really that Leavers were willing to sacrifice 4% of the economy just to be out of the club?

 

[Simster]

I accept that Brexit happened, but where is all the stuff the Leavers said would happen afterwards, i.e. the free trade deals with all of the major economic powers in the world? Where is evidence of the 'Brexit dividend' now that we don't have to pay £350 million a week to the EU? Why is immigration at record highs? Where is the inward investment now we are 'free from the shackles of Europe'? Or is it really that Leavers were willing to sacrifice 4% of the economy just to be out of the club?

It's this. Leavers tend to be members of the "shit life" club, also known as the "I don't want it so you can't have it either" club. They want to make everybody else's lives worse so that they can feel better about theirs.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's this. Leavers tend to be members of the "shit life" club, also known as the "I don't want it so you can't have it either" club. They want to make everybody else's lives worse so that they can feel better about theirs.

Economists estimate our GDP is c. 5.5% smaller than if we had stayed in the EU. I accept that there is a sizeable minority of people who think that is a price worth paying just to be out of the club, but that is a max 1/3rd of voters.

Nothing the Leavers promised in the Referendum has actually happened or been delivered other than leaving the club and severing all ties. The act of leaving is the sole outcome of "Getting Brexit Done". The sooner politicians are honest about this the sooner we can all move on to the next stage, otherwise we'll waste another 5 years waiting for promised benefits that will never come.

 

[Weststander]

Plus the qualitative stuff e.g. joining long passport queues entering the EU. The only cute thing is passport stamps, reminiscent of travels past.

1. I wonder if there'll ever be another referendum? Imho we need a very strong Labour first 5 years, not ruined by new global crises and/or deliberate warfare/sabotage from the hard left, to make it feasible in a second term. It's easy to overly cocky now; that Labour will be in for several terms.
2. Would a very fed up EU want us back.

A € for the thoughts of @Harry Wilson's tackle.

 

[nicko31]

Plus the qualitative stuff e.g. joining long passport queues entering the EU. The only cute thing is passport stamps, reminiscent of travels past.

1. I wonder if there'll ever be another referendum? Imho we need a very strong Labour first 5 years, not ruined by new global crises and/or deliberate warfare/sabotage from the hard left, to make it feasible in a second term. It's easy to overly cocky now; that Labour will be in for several terms.
2. Would a very fed up EU want us back.

A € for the thoughts of @Harry Wilson's tackle.

I'd go back in tomorrow.

But realistically without a super majority forget it and the EU is tired of us, we caused too much trouble.

Think 60% + in favour of rejoin will happen within a decade, especially if the EU changes which I think it. For example I don't think the Schengen agreement will last

 

[Weststander]

I'd go back in tomorrow.

But realistically without a super majority forget it and the EU is tired of us, we caused too much trouble.

Think 60% + in favour of rejoin will happen within a decade, especially if the EU changes which I think it. For example I don't think the Schengen agreement will last

So would I.

I get the impression from a few commentators that 60% is here already. Plus anecdotally loads of Brexiteers (not racists btw, just folk who over reacted to decades of chatter about overpaid MEP's and Commissioners) say to me that they regret their vote. Am I wrong about the 60%?

 

[WATFORD zero]

So would I.

I get the impression from a few commentators that 60% is here already. Plus anecdotally loads of Brexiteers (not racists btw, just folk who over reacted to decades of chatter about overpaid MEP's and Commissioners) say to me that they regret their vote. Am I wrong about the 60%?

I think you're right about the 60% but the big issue is what party would raise it ? It seems that Britain is still split, it's just the groups have evolved into the how the hell do we fix this side and the I don't want to talk about it any more side. I think a few more years of economic pain, ever increasing NHS waiting lists, housing crises, high inflation, businesses failing etc etc are needed yet in order to persuade more people that it really needs talking about and fixing.

I'm sure the EU would have us back as it makes good economic sense for both parties and the EU have never bought into that whole jingoistic flag waving thing, but it would obviously be nowhere near as good as the deal we had. That has gone forever, but I can see CU/SM happening fairly quickly.

Hopefully people took my advice when Johnson became PM and battened down the hatches for a long period of economic uncertainty because, whoever gets into power next year, this isn't going away for a good while yet

But, on the bright side, we have the greatest Albion team ever

*edit* I knew I'd seen something somewhere re the 60%, and it's only heading in one direction

 

[Weststander]

I think you're right about the 60% but the big issue is what party would raise it ? It seems that Britain is still split, it's just the groups have evolved into the how the hell do we fix this side and the I don't want to talk about it any more side. I think a few more years of economic pain, ever increasing NHS waiting lists, housing crises, high inflation, businesses failing etc etc are needed yet in order to persuade more people that it really needs talking about and fixing.

I'm sure the EU would have us back as it makes good economic sense for both parties and the EU have never bought into that whole jingoistic flag waving thing, but it would obviously be nowhere near as good as the deal we had. That has gone forever, but I can see CU/SM happening fairly quickly.

Hopefully people took my advice when Johnson became PM and battened down the hatches for a long period of economic uncertainty because, whoever gets into power next year, this isn't going away for a good while yet

But, on the bright side, we have the greatest Albion team ever

*edit* I knew I'd seen something somewhere re the 60%, from over 6 months ago, but it's only heading in one direction

View attachment 167988

Good point about the “Don’t want to talk about it any more”. I’d expand that to many, many millions of 16 to any age year-olds who have little to no interest in party politics, Brexit, the Middle East, Ukraine etc … chatting to folk in that bracket over the years, they’re generally happier. A far cry from nsc current affairs threads or the school staff room where we’d get the false impression that the populace think about politics a lot.

The EU would benefit too from our re-entry. I remember you mentioning moving investments offshore swiftly, anticipating our decline. I’ve followed some European funds loved by IFA’s/commentators, but they’ve been sh1t for years. My guess is Brexit and unrelated to that global funds have poured into the US for a long run now.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd go back in tomorrow.

But realistically without a super majority forget it and the EU is tired of us, we caused too much trouble.

Think 60% + in favour of rejoin will happen within a decade, especially if the EU changes which I think it. For example I don't think the Schengen agreement will last

Why don’t you think the Schengen Agreement will last?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Plus the qualitative stuff e.g. joining long passport queues entering the EU. The only cute thing is passport stamps, reminiscent of travels past.

1. I wonder if there'll ever be another referendum? Imho we need a very strong Labour first 5 years, not ruined by new global crises and/or deliberate warfare/sabotage from the hard left, to make it feasible in a second term. It's easy to overly cocky now; that Labour will be in for several terms.
2. Would a very fed up EU want us back.

A € for the thoughts of @Harry Wilson's tackle.

I agree with your perspective. Labour won't touch Brexit with a barge pole until it has shown, and can persuade the nation, it not only has the wider best interest at heart but also can show some competence. We are a very long way for that (because it will take time).

Here is a question for you. During Blair's first two terms, I think he did what we want Starmer to do now, but he did not 'kick on' and got increasingly embedded in PPF to show he was not red in tooth and claw, to no useful end. So, do you think that there is no point at which the nation might view Labour as a party that is intrinsically going to look after our finances?

It used to be the case that the tories were always regarded as the party to trust in this regard. I am still not persuaded that the tories have tanked this in the minds of the majority, and that they will still be regarded as the party of financial competence even after all the bollocks we have been subjected to in the last 13 years. If so it make's Starmer's job even tougher as no slack will be cut and the 'nation' will 'demand' instant turnaround. Do you agree, or am I just a pessimistic old twat?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I agree with your perspective. Labour won't touch Brexit with a barge pole until it has shown, and can persuade the nation, it not only has the wider best interest at heart but also can show some competence. We are a very long way for that (because it will take time).

Here is a question for you. During Blair's first two terms, I think he did what we want Starmer to do now, but he did not 'kick on' and got increasingly embedded in PPF to show he was not red in tooth and claw, to no useful end. So, do you think that there is no point at which the nation might view Labour as a party that is intrinsically going to look after our finances?

It used to be the case that the tories were always regarded as the party to trust in this regard. I am still not persuaded that the tories have tanked this in the minds of the majority, and that they will still be regarded as the party of financial competence even after all the bollocks we have been subjected to in the last 13 years. If so it make's Starmer's job even tougher as no slack will be cut and the 'nation' will 'demand' instant turnaround. Do you agree, or am I just a pessimistic old twat?

Anyone who thinks the Tories are the party of fiscal prudence has done literally zero historical research into our country. Or they’re so embedded in certain benefits being personally derived from the way they run the country financially that they can’t see the wood through the trees.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Anyone who thinks the Tories are the party of fiscal prudence has done literally zero historical research into our country. Or they’re so embedded in certain benefits being personally derived from the way they run the country financially that they can’t see the wood through the trees.

Calm down dear.

I think the tories are a bungling load of narcissistic wankpuffins.

However, sadly, the general election next (and the one after) won't be determined by my vote alone. It is a tough job weaning large swathes of the electorate of the blue tit, as we can see on here where there are numerous died in the wool tories who wound still sniff at Labour even if Starmer turned up on their doorstep with a cure for all their diseases, the philosophers' stone, a key to a Swiss safety deposit box, a bound copy of the Necronomicon, and a lifetime supply of nudie ladies.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I think you're right about the 60% but the big issue is what party would raise it ? It seems that Britain is still split, it's just the groups have evolved into the how the hell do we fix this side and the I don't want to talk about it any more side. I think a few more years of economic pain, ever increasing NHS waiting lists, housing crises, high inflation, businesses failing etc etc are needed yet in order to persuade more people that it really needs talking about and fixing.

I'm sure the EU would have us back as it makes good economic sense for both parties and the EU have never bought into that whole jingoistic flag waving thing, but it would obviously be nowhere near as good as the deal we had. That has gone forever, but I can see CU/SM happening fairly quickly.

Hopefully people took my advice when Johnson became PM and battened down the hatches for a long period of economic uncertainty because, whoever gets into power next year, this isn't going away for a good while yet

But, on the bright side, we have the greatest Albion team ever

*edit* I knew I'd seen something somewhere re the 60%, and it's only heading in one direction

View attachment 167990

Still not dealing with the biggest issue though, which is our own political system.

I think most people are beginning to realise it wasn’t the EU that was the issue - it was us. It’s been us for a long time. And seeing Starmer put out inconsequential policies up against Sunak just illustrates that nothing will change in this country, inside or outside of the EU, until our own system changes.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Calm down dear.

I think the tories are a bungling load of narcissistic wankpuffins.

However, sadly, the general election next (and the one after) won't be determined by my vote alone. It is a tough job weaning large swathes of the electorate of the blue tit, as we can see on here where there are numerous died in the wool tories who wound still sniff at Labour even if Stramer turned up on their doorstep with a cure for all their diseases, the philosophers' stone, a key to a Swiss safety deposit box, a bound copy of the Necronomicon, and a lifetime supply of nudie ladies.

I didn’t say you did cutie pie

And I agree with everything you’re saying. In fact, I think we’re saying the same thing.

The biggest issue is that Labour don’t offer a sensible alternative in their current format.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Still not dealing with the biggest issue though, which is our own political system.

I think most people are beginning to realise it wasn’t the EU that was the issue - it was us. It’s been us for a long time. And seeing Starmer put out inconsequential policies up against Sunak just illustrates that nothing will change in this country, inside or outside of the EU, until our own system changes.

Personally, I believe that a FPTP system is a political abomination (something myself and @Harry Wilson's tackle disagree fervently on) and I've never considered myself a labour 'supporter'. However, me and H both recognise that if your country is in an economic suicide pact with a cabal of the most dishonest, corrupt, self serving Politicians ever, then we'll happily get together and address that issue first.

You need to learn to prioritise