Holland to play in black and white tonight

[Bluejuice]

Sorry SM BHAFC but I don't buy that. I know Pakistani people who do take a lot of offence to the term Paki. This may not be the case in their own country or elsewhere in the world but the very fact it is so often used as a term of degradation in this country means it is offensive to hear.

As for this gesture, I'd have some sympathy with it if Nike weren't involved but despite the fact that the wristbands are for charity and the shirts don't seem to be commercially available (yet) I can't help thinking that Nike are in this for their own gain and couldn't give a shiny shit about racism. At the end of the day they exploit people from developing nations, the vast majority of whom are black, and I consider this racist in many ways.

 

[SM BHAFC]

Er AP what are you going on about? Read the post again I unfortunetly don't have the power to make Austarlian/Pakistani culture bend to my will however powerfull my intellectual powers may be. (not very)

 

[SM BHAFC]

Bluejuice I know many that don't, PC gone too far in my opinion. we need to lighten up a bit in the UK. Paki is just shortening the country name how is that racist? If someone uses it is a racist way then far enough they deserve to be prosecuted, but Paki power, paki shop, paki bloke, bird etc I don't buy that as racist.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

No.
They KNOW it is not acceptable to do so, but they do it anyway because they are "hard and rebellious". None of them feel it is acceptable at all - everyone knows that racist chanting is considered abhorrant by the majority, but that doesn't stop the minority making their feelings known.

I think it is totally naiive to believe that someone who enjoys chanting racist abuse at black players will suddenly stop because of a few anti-racism football shirts. These scumbags have to be DEALT WITH, and no amount of leaflet campaigns and black & white shirts will make a jot of difference.

We've got cameras coming out of our arses at International games. Get those cameras on the crowd. Get the CCTV cameras on the crowd. Identify the SCUM doing the monkey noises, and get those bastards arrested, charged, jailed and banned. THAT is "kicking racism out of football", not wearing a frigging t-shirt in the kickabout.

But do they do it because they are "hard and rebellious". Look at the people chanting in Spain. THey weren't yobs they were normal men and women who felt it was acceptable for them to make monkey noises.

 

[alan partridge]

Bluejuice I know many that don't, PC gone too far in my opinion. we need to lighten up a bit in the UK. Paki is just shortening the country name how is that racist? If someone uses it is a racist way then far enough they deserve to be prosecuted, but Paki power, paki shop, paki bloke, bird etc I don't buy that as racist.

Ofcourse, Pakistanis came to Britain and said 'Hello We're Pakis, nice to meet you.'

It was never a word spat at all people who look vaguely Pakistani by racist thugs inbetween shoving shit through their letter boxes. All a leftie myth.

My Indian friends love it when I say 'Hi Paki, how's it hanging?' How we laugh,

It's political correctness gone mad

 

[Wozza]

PC gone too far in my opinion. we need to lighten up a bit in the UK. Paki is just shortening the country name how is that racist?

It's a derogatory term in the UK - it’s as simple as that.

The Aussies need to tighten up, imo.

 

[Easy 10]

But do they do it because they are "hard and rebellious". Look at the people chanting in Spain. THey weren't yobs they were normal men and women who felt it was acceptable for them to make monkey noises.

And wearing a t-shirt is going to change that, is it ?

If it was up to me, I'd like to see them all tear-gassed. But realistically, if you are seriously going to attempt to stamp out this problem in football grounds, you've got to physically do something about it. By that I mean arrests, jail and subsequent bans. You're not going to change ANYONES attitude with this "kick racism out of football" campaign unless you are prepared to PUNISH the people who do it.

A racist is a racist - you can't change his or her attitude by printing a few special t-shirts and carrying a banner round before kickoff. He or she will arrive as a racist, watch the match as a racist, and leave as a racist. If they decide to give a public demonstration to show the fact that they are racist, then the only way to deal with that is to arrest them, remove them from the ground, charge them and then BAN them.

Anything else is just a load of empty token gestures which will do, precisely, f***-all. "Raising awareness" does not actually DEAL with anything. Its just a glib statement to make people THINK the authorities are clamping down on this shit, when actually they are doing nothing of the sort.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

This is utter bollocks and a complete waste of time.

You're not going to influence a racist at a football match by pulling on a t-shirt that says "kick racism out of football", or wearing a black & white kit for christs sake. What difference is that going to make ?

Its down to the authorities to start cracking down in a BIG way, arresting and prosecuting the mindless twats ON THE SPOT who dish out racist abuse, and its down to the governing football bodies to issue more than a slap on the wrist when this persistant abuse goes on. The £45k fine given to the Spanish FA after those scenes in the last England friendly at the Bernabeu was utterly risible.

Players wearing t-shirts will do utterly f***-all in stamping out this problem - its no more than a token effort, a limp gesture at "addressing" this problem, and I won't believe they are serious about doing something about it until I actually see police/stewards wading in to grab these dickheads, and FIFA/UEFA dishing out some bans from tournaments and behind-closed-door qualifiers.

Easy10, i agree it will have no impact on adult racists, but it is possible that it will do on kids. If they see their heroes and prominent players / stars saying that it's wrong then i think it will make them seriously consider what they say. Kids, generally, are heavily influenced by peer pressure. If all the prominent figures and media of the sport they love keep telling them that it's wrong, then they are going to accept it as wrong. That is what i assume is the aim of the campaign. Irradicating something like racism isn't going to happen overnight. Ther best way of assuring it's demise is to stop its bloodflow. Make the kids realise it's wrong and eventually the only racists left will be bitter, twisted old men and women who are just waiting to shuffle off to their deathbeds.

I do agree with you though taht in the short term more direct action should be taken.

Just my two penny's worth, like.

 

[Easy 10]

Easy10, i agree it will have no impact on adult racists, but it is possible that it will do on kids. If they see their heroes and prominent players / stars saying that it's wrong then i think it will make them seriously consider what they say. Kids, generally, are heavily influenced by peer pressure. If all the prominent figures and media of the sport they love keep telling them that it's wrong, then they are going to accept it as wrong. That is what i assume is the aim of the campaign. Irradicating something like racism isn't going to happen overnight. Ther best way of assuring it's demise is to stop its bloodflow. Make the kids realise it's wrong and eventually the only racists left will be bitter, twisted old men and women who are just waiting to shuffle off to their deathbeds.

I do agree with you though taht in the short term more direct action should be taken.

Just my two penny's worth, like.

Perhaps, but I fear the majority of the racist youth of tomorrow are honing their "skills" from the parents of today. These attidudes are engrained from a very young age. In an ideal world, perhaps the "kick racism out of football" campaign might have an influence on some of the younger football fans...but a young, impressionable child taken to a match by a racist father is sadly far more likely to be influenced by his knuckle-scraping dad than he is from seeing his favourite player trotting round in a t-shirt with some logo on it.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Perhaps, but I fear the majority of the racist youth of tomorrow are honing their "skills" from the parents of today. These attidudes are engrained from a very young age. In an ideal world, perhaps the "kick racism out of football" campaign might have an influence on some of the younger football fans...but a young, impressionable child taken to a match by a racist father is sadly far more likely to be influenced by his knuckle-scraping dad than he is from seeing his favourite player trotting round in a t-shirt with some logo on it.

That's true. I guess those that are surrounded by it and brought up with it will need a little more re-education. I'm thinking more of those kids whose parents aren't overtly racist but hear racism elsewhere and assume that it's o.k to copy. They are the one's that will be influenced by the t-shirts/wristbands etc.


And i really do think it will work on them. I remember when I started going to football in the late 80's as a highly impressionable 8 year old. It was the atmosphere and standing on the terraces as much as the gladiatorial contest(or so it seemed at the time) going on on the pitch, that drew me in. However, part of the football experience of those days was listening to racist comments every game. It was a common occurence and so to an 8 year old in the presence of his elders and betters it seemed an entirely natural and acceptable thing. Luckily, my generation was saved by hillsborough,world cup 90, and the subsequent boom in popularity and changes to the way that football was watched and marketed that followed. Otherwise, I fear there could have been more casual football racists among us.

 

[Hydro Driven]

What are England wearing RED?

 

[Easy 10]

That's true. I guess those that are surrounded by it and brought up with it will need a little more re-education. I'm thinking more of those kids whose parents aren't overtly racist but hear racism elsewhere and assume that it's o.k to copy. They are the one's that will be influenced by the t-shirts/wristbands etc.


And i really do think it will work on them. I remember when I started going to football in the late 80's as a highly impressionable 8 year old. It was the atmosphere and standing on the terraces as much as the gladiatorial contest(or so it seemed at the time) going on on the pitch, that drew me in. However, part of the football experience of those days was listening to racist comments every game. It was a common occurence and so to an 8 year old in the presence of his elders and betters it seemed an entirely natural and acceptable thing. Luckily, my generation was saved by hillsborough,world cup 90, and the subsequent boom in popularity and changes to the way that football was watched and marketed that followed. Otherwise, I fear there could have been more casual football racists among us.

Good point well made.
This shirt thing tonight won't do any harm I suppose. Its just that it frustrates me that nobody seems willing to take more direct action to stamp out this behaviour. I'm probably as guilty as anyone - I've sat a few seats away from someone doing monkey-chants before, and not done anything about it because its easier to just let it go and mutter "twat" under my breath than it is to confront them and tell them to shut up.

The authorities running the game have the power to enforce draconian measures to have these people ejected from the ground and banned - but how often does that happen ? Talk is cheap I'm afraid. I won't believe the likes of the FA, FIFA and UEFA are taking this racism issue seriously until they actively start doing something about it, beyond a few t-shirts and hoardings round the pitch.