Help Protect British Jobs

[Deano's Right Foot]

Governments can do little about this. Corporations are far more powerful than governments these days. Any government introding a tarriff would immediately be accused of putting British companies at a disadvantage against companies in other countries. We live in a small world where competition and capitalism rule. It's the next step from Gap / Nike aetc using cheap labour in the developing world to make clothes, trainers, footballs etc. and it's made possible by the Telecoms revolution that has been happening in the last five to ten years. The (developed) world is apparently crying out for cheaper and cheaper goods and services. How many of us are off to buy a DVD player for £50 or less this Christmas? I've swapped banks before as a protest, but who the hell do you bank with - they all stink (maybe not Co-op bank?)

I also find it disconcerting that Indians in these call centres are given English and American names and are taught how to speak with an English or American accent. An insidious form of colonianisn?

It's all pretty depressing.

 

[Lammy]

India's first language will be English within 20 years.

 

[Spiros]

The reality of the call centre moves to India is that they provide a better quality of service for significantly less money. One company I know very well has done just this and found that

(1) The Indians are good quality grads with loyalty to the company
(2) The english are mainly poorly qualified and move on as soon as they can (usually within about 6 months)
(3) Despite 1 and 2 the english expect to be paid about 10 times what the Indians want
(4) When the proper training is done (which it is in the company I refer to) the customer gets a better service and they don't realise that they are speaking to someone in India. However when asked where they are they give a truthful answer.

If you have ever had the misfortune to deal with the Lloyds TSB in Newcastle (which as a customer I have) then the news that is being replaced by one in India is only good. The staff I dealt with were unhelpful and not always easy to understand.

 

[Lammy]

Good point! Who is easier to understand an Indian or a Geordie?

 

[marvin]

Can't dispute most of that, which is why it is up to the British consumer to put the foot down.

I got strange looks when I spent 3 months tracking down what I wanted.

A British made hand built cycle made from British sourced steel. (Most steel in this country is now sourced in Taiwan and Japan etc.)

I found it, eventually.

As to better service....... Ok if you're MR Smith but I am Mr Colevillie (Colville really) but not spoken to any one from Mumbai that can pronounce it yet.

I also have less of a problem with support operations being moved over seas. Its the manufatoring side that needs to be maintained in the UK if it was UK based in the first place.

 

[Spiros]

Marvin - I commend you for your principals (sp?), however the reality for some of these companies is that they are multinationals whose prime duties are to their shareholders and customers. I also agree with something a previous poster said which is that India will eventually get saturated and the prices will go up. Although some back office stuff may go to China they don't have the same language skills as the Indians. The other compensating factor is that exporting these jobs is only viable for the biggest companies - without the economies of scale the salary savings are wiped out by the extra comms and travel costs.

 

[Lammy]

I had a rant at the Deli in Tesco as I was forced to buy Danish bacon instead of British! Why do we need to import Bacon for God's sake?

 

[Mr Popkins]

it pure greed moving call centres abroad, companies are doing well at the moment and are moving abroad to keep their shareholders even more happy!

if i could i would buy everything british and would be prepared to pay a little more for it, if it ment keeping jobs in the country.

i disagree that you get a better service from india, I cannot understand what they are saying most of the time. altough saying that i dont live in london and have to deal with etchnic minorities day to day.

please dont take this as being rasist anybody!

 

[marvin]

Marvin - I commend you for your principals (sp?), however the reality for some of these companies is that they are multinationals whose prime duties are to their shareholders and customers.

So if the customers walk in this country what are the shareholders going to do?

 

[Spiros]

Fair point - and if there was real evidence of it happening in significant numbers I'm sure things would change. Unfortunately the average punter in the street is not so clued up (hence the big four banks remain big despite offering the worst service).

The other problem is that it is difficult to tell who is doing this versus who isn't. In some financial services businesses most of the big players with the most eye-catching rates/products are doing it but not all are being open about where their customer servicing staff are based. There is one who train their staff to use regional accents and get local papers shipped over so that they can seem more 'local' to the customers.

 

[marvin]

Don't dispute any of that, the average man (or woman) in the UK is too thick to realise that high tax is related to the jobs going abroad. As we pay the costs of retraining or unemployment benefits for every job that goes. If you have more people in work and paying tax you can then chose to have lower tax's or better services, or a bit of both.

There is no real evedence of it happening because to a large extent it does not happen. Some like me make our petty protests but that will never make a dent in large consumer orgs. Its why we have very poor customer service in this country as well.

The consumer needs to realise the power it has and tell business what it wants not let business tell it what it will get.

I won't hold me breath though.

 

[Spiros]

Agree with all of that marvin. The other reason why few care is that unemployment is not a real issue in this country at the moment. It it gets bad then people may start to sit up and take notice but by then it's too late. Also we have a culture of look at the price first and other factors later. Some other countries take a longer look at what they're buying before worrying about the price, which is a secondary consideration to certain standards, eg ethics, country of origin, etc

 

[Pavilionaire]

I don't see what the problem is.

Most of the call centre jobs here are filled by women who, once made redundant, will return to their rightful place - the home.

 

[looney]

This is a silly arguement

jobs going abroad? Good! Jobs have always gone abroad for hundreds of years.

The question should be where are the new jobs going to be created. Does the government allow the economic environment to prosper to create enough new ones?

Its funny that(usually lefties), moan about jobs going abroad but still advocate mass immigration.

Whats the difference?

An indian comming here to take job X or job X going to Bombay?

There are LOADS of reasons why jobs going to poorer countries is a good thing.

If you want the right answers you have to ask the right questions.

 

[DTES]

"Usually lefties". I like you looney, you make me laugh. You're never afraid to assume that anybody who disagrees with you on any issue is a "leftie".

I don't understand why most people are moaning on here. As some have said, I'd rather deal with a graduate on the other end of the phone than a spotty teenager with one GCSE. And the companies would rather do it because it's helps them too.

On the understanding argument; would people feel they have a valid right to complain because a company employed British-Asian people here that they couldn't understand.

And one more point, which may well make me sound stupid, but what exactly is the reason for boycotting HSBC? Please don't tell me it's the same reason. Surely people are not boycotting the Hong Kong-Shanghai Banking Corporation because they're not entirely based in Britain?

 

[marvin]

They are exporting jobs that were once in this country because they can get it CHEAPER elsewhere. if it was a quality thing then yes a good reason. Its not a good reason to stop employing people in this country so you can employ cheaper people in other countries. Not if you wish to be selling and serving in this country.

I can honestly say the qulity of Indian provided call centre's are not better than UK.

Reason being that the frontline staff that these jobs go to do not have the access to the right information to solve the complex problems I have when I finally give up and call a call centre. Then they put me through to a UK call centre.

Looney I am not a leftie, but I have been kept by the British tax payer for the last 17 years (carer) I feel that i and everyone else in this country has a duty to the British tax payer and should not be supporting companies that do not do the same.

But then maybe you are happy to subsidise large very profitable companies by paying higher tax due to them not having to pay the real cost of shedding workers in the UK? The French don't have as bigger problem as we do. They make it more difficult to export jobs. There is a downside of course, they are French.

 

[TURD]

Marvin

I would love to get in a debate with you but my time is limited. I said usually lefties, meaning usually unions who seem to have a no change ever mentality. There are many reasons that costs may be cheaper overseas and not just the cheap labour arguement, japan has "taken" loads of jobs over the years cheifly due to the better application and implimentation of new technology.

Generally speaking jobs that are not Capital intensive will be the ones shifting about and then there will be considerations of trade offs, save money v bad PR etc.

If you want a country were jobs are gushing abroad try Zimbabwe, we are nowhere near that level and thats the real reason that jobs flow out at an increasing rate.... bad government.


"pay the real cost of shedding workers in the UK? "

Real cost? I doubt you could give an objective definition of this.

Oh and if you raise exit costs to companies you are also raising a barrier to entry as companies will think twice before comming.

Take a look at the french unemployment rate and there employment participation rates.

France is slowly going down the pan. It is not a country to immitate economicly.

 

[marvin]

I would love to get in a debate with you but my time is limited. I said usually lefties, meaning usually unions who seem to have a no change ever mentality. There are many reasons that costs may be cheaper overseas and not just the cheap labour arguement, japan has "taken" loads of jobs over the years cheifly due to the better application and implimentation of new technology.

But not in this case the sole reason to move is the cost of employing "cheap" labour abroad is the sole reason for the move.

No argument is even made by the companies doing the move for better quality it is simply that the sums for their shareholders is better.

You will note (from previous parts of this thread, i don't like repeating myself for the lazy) I have little problem if they can do it better abroad as we should be doing it better here this should not be a problem.

It too often is but it should not be, that's down to the poor management that we have from time to time in this country.

I also dispute that the Indian call centres actually produce better quality as I always seem to get sent back to a british call centre as they can't deal with the call there anyway.

With Unions we are of one mind, out of date out of power and pointless now. The got drunk on their power in the late 60's and 70's and got hoist by their own petard.

But the arguement on consumer power is not one for unions or lefties it is about the people of this country telling those who wish to do business with it how they will treat us. And we should make it very clear that the cost of exporting jobs is the export their profits too.

Won't happen too many in this country too thick or lazy to do anything about it.

threaten to take away a few jobs beause you stop a few prats trying to kill foxes with dogs and people march on London streets. Wreck whole family lives purly so these very same people can live in luxury and no-one gives a damn.

Its an odd world.

 

[Highfields Seagull]

I don't see what the problem is.

Most of the call centre jobs here are filled by women who, once made redundant, will return to their rightful place - the home.

Made me laugh, ta.

 

[US Seagull]

it pure greed moving call centres abroad, companies are doing well at the moment and are moving abroad to keep their shareholders even more happy!

I don't think you can really call it greed, it's more a matter of survival. If one bank moves it's customer service operation abroad and saves x million pounds, the others are bound to follow suit or they will get their ass kicked in the marketplace by those that have. I'm not saying it's right, but it is way the real world works at the moment.
The other problem is that your average punter may want to buy British, but they also want to pay the same price as third-world imports. You can't have something for nothing.