Has New Labour cronyism saved the Albion?

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Interesting stuff. Thinking about it the Albion are quite well connected, isn't a former director currently Lord Chancellor....., or am I thinking of a different Lord Falconer.

That's another Lord Falconer. Lord Charlie Falconer of Thoroton QC, the First Flatmate, Secretary of State for Crony Affairs and Lord High Chancellor of the Realm is not the same as the Lord Falconer who was a non-exec director put in at the request of the CEDR dispute resolution people.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The link with housing strategy is a good one to make. Remember Hoile's Local Plan Report rubbished not only the stadium, but the City Council's housing plans.

Someone, somewhere (Steve Bassam?) no doubt got Prescott asking himself a simple question ... What are these Inspectors on?

 

[Lammy]

I can't be aresed to read all THAT! What's the gist?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I can't be aresed to read all THAT! What's the gist?

The gist ... Prescott moves in mysterious ways. We'll get Falmer.

 

[Gwylan]

The link with housing strategy is a good one to make. Remember Hoile's Local Plan Report rubbished not only the stadium, but the City Council's housing plans.

Someone, somewhere (Steve Bassam?) no doubt got Prescott asking himself a simple question ... What are these Inspectors on?

I think it was you, Lord B (or possibly London Irish) who remarked on the blinkered approach that planning inspectors have. Their mindset will have been 'new development - bad' unless it can be proved to the contrary (or it's a retail development as supermarkets can appear to do what they want). With the shortage of land in the south-east and the need to expand (houses, airports, offices and, er, football stadia) some of these old ways of thinking are going to be outdated.

Put simply, we either stop being so London/SE centric - a near impossibility. Or we start setting new criteria for development.

On the whole, I'm opposed to building on green land, as I'm sure most people on this board will be, but there are plenty of cases where land is neither wholly green or brown, like Falmer, which previously would have been treated as green. I guess that this will be less likely to be the case in future.

 

[Curious Orange]

That's another Lord Falconer. Lord Charlie Falconer of Thoroton QC, the First Flatmate, Secretary of State for Crony Affairs and Lord High Chancellor of the Realm is not the same as the Lord Falconer who was a non-exec director put in at the request of the CEDR dispute resolution people.

Well that's alright then.

I said on another thread that in this situation we are very much the underdogs, as in the South East the NIMBYs generally rule the roost when it comes to not letting anything be built that may in any way be beneficial to anybody other than themselves. It's nice to see that perhaps at last some common sense, and democracy, may prevail.

 

[Harold]

The lobbying was fantastic and innovative stuff and clearly JP would have been moved by the level of interest in the issue. Our pro-Falmer MP's and political contacts also would have his ear. However, is it not also another possible factor that Prezza (as a person) is a bluff, no-nonsense, Northern union type that would treat Southern England NIMBY'ism (blue rinse brigade and retired Colonels with green ink in their pens!) with a level of disdain. Prehaps even a little of that attitude is directed towards his process and precedent driven inspectors (who are likely to be better educated that the fat controller himself!).

I also thought there was a general Government move or agenda to devolve more of these sort of planning decisions back to local council, also to relax guidelines inhibiting development around AONB areas and the like. Mainly due to the sheer demand for housing and a desire to limit the effects that blatant NIMBY'ism has on stalling/stopping essential developments.

Maybe JP just doesn't like or can't relate to whinging Southern villagers but can relate to us as footy fans, and has introduced a genuine human element to the whole issue.

 

[Lammy]

The gist ... Prescott moves in mysterious ways. We'll get Falmer.

Oh ok that's fine. Carry on...

 

[Gwylan]

...However, is it not also another possible factor that Prezza (as a person) is a bluff, no-nonsense, Northern union type that would treat Southern England NIMBY'ism (blue rinse brigade and retired Colonels with green ink in their pens!) with a level of disdain. Prehaps even a little of that attitude is directed towards his process and precedent driven inspectors (who are likely to be better educated that the fat controller himself!).

Maybe. But it should be pointed out that Prescott has an Oxford University degree.

 

[attila]

With Respect (which is who I'll be voting for if the stadium isuue is sorted!) I think you are vastly underestimating the impact a political intervention would have - at the next General Election there will be millions of people totally hacked off by all mainstream parties, many of them down here (I am certainly one!)
and looking for an alternative. A clever Seagulls Party campaign, addressing itself to all those disillusioned with mainstream politians who don't listen to the people (not just aiming at Albion fans) could have a huge impact.

But I hope, and believe, it won't come to taht.

 

[Oval Gull]

I respect your optimism Lord B and hope that ultimately your optimism will be borne out.

One point though - by definition this is party political - if it hadnt been for Caplin, Bassam and a well connected new labour local authority this would have all been dead in the water a long time ago.

I disagree. Remember that (apart from one Tory voting against), the decision on the council to support Falmer was cross party, and signatures on the EDM have been cross party.

Prescott (and the minority Labour administration in Brighton) have done the right thing and supported the stadium, but I reckon that any of the three mainstream parties would have had to listen to the calls for a stadium and supported them, whichever one was actually in power.

 

[Man of Harveys]

All this makes you wish for a strengthened level of local democracy - I reckon that in parts of the US, we might now be looking forward to voting as to whether these planning inspectors - blimpish, unworldly and entirely unaccountable - kept their job.

 

[Hunting 784561]

I disagree. Remember that (apart from one Tory voting against), the decision on the council to support Falmer was cross party, and signatures on the EDM have been cross party.

Prescott (and the minority Labour administration in Brighton) have done the right thing and supported the stadium, but I reckon that any of the three mainstream parties would have had to listen to the calls for a stadium and supported them, whichever one was actually in power.

I disagree. At a local level maybe there was eventually cross party support, but who do you think has been breathing down Prescotts fat ear for the last 8 months ? Three local MPs ( all labour ) and Bassam.

Much as it pains me to say it, its precisely because B&H is so integrated with new labour that this process has got as far as it has .

If however they ulimately f*** up and cant deliver, they will be discredited and seen as a busted flush.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

With Respect (which is who I'll be voting for if the stadium isuue is sorted!) I think you are vastly underestimating the impact a political intervention would have - at the next General Election there will be millions of people totally hacked off by all mainstream parties, many of them down here (I am certainly one!)
and looking for an alternative. A clever Seagulls Party campaign, addressing itself to all those disillusioned with mainstream politians who don't listen to the people (not just aiming at Albion fans) could have a huge impact.

But I hope, and believe, it won't come to taht.

The trouble with Respect (and the trouble with any Seagulls Party) is that they are seen as single issue protest movements.

There are indeed millions of people hacked off by the mainstream parties. The right seems to be reaching out to their supporters among these millions (mainly through UKIP - which is turning into far more than a single issue movement). What is really needed is a movement of the liberal left that will mop up support from the wide range of people who are out here waiting for it to happen.

If you're satisfied with gesture politics, vote Bob Dobbs.

 

[aftershavedave]

has new labour croneyism saved the albion? almost certainly yes in my opinion, and i'm very grateful to them for it.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

All this makes you wish for a strengthened level of local democracy - I reckon that in parts of the US, we might now be looking forward to voting as to whether these planning inspectors - blimpish, unworldly and entirely unaccountable - kept their job.

Got to disagree there. I'm not saying that the planners have got it completely right (a 5 mile walk to Sheepcoat anyone?) but If you were a planning inspector and you had to put a stadium in that location, You'd have to have some concerns.
I'm not sure what evidence they had in front of them regarding the other sites, but it obviously wasn't bulletproof enough. I'm not surprised we got a no. Equally, I'm not surprised that JP has taken into account the council backing and re-opened the enquiry to clarify the site argument.

Falmer isn't the ideal place to build a stadium, the planners have it right. However, what's dissapointing is the simple glossing over the other sites as 'probably more suitable' without any concrete evidence, it is surprising that professionals who deal in detail can pick a planning proposal to shreds and be so blasé about alternatives

The NIMBY's have every right to protest, but the crux is, there is NO alternative site. Come the end of the public enquiry, we'll have our stadium.

 

[perseus]

Falmer isn't the ideal place to build a stadium, the planners have it right. However, what's dissapointing is the simple glossing over the other sites as 'probably more suitable' without any concrete evidence, it is surprising that professionals who deal in detail can pick a planning proposal to shreds and be so blasé about alternatives

The NIMBY's have every right to protest, but the crux is, there is NO alternative site. Come the end of the public enquiry, we'll have our stadium.

There is a precedent right next door. Portosmello was turned down and althought the EU ordered the British Government to clean up Brighton's sewage there was not another location for the sewage works on the cards.

It was always (and still is) a possibility that Falmer will be turned down without another location being approved.

It might actually be less of a possibility now. I don't actually think so though. I do not draw any implications from Prescott not giving an outright No. They just put the decision off without any implications. (The Amber Light by Dick Knight is just a delusion, there is simply no credence to it at all !)

Timeline:

Best scenario:

Public Inquiry result: February 2005
Judicial Review and appeal to the High Court: finished May 2006
Building Time: of three years: for the beginning of season 2011-12.

No hurry to think up a reply then.

Most of the Falmer residents will be dead by then.

Extra comment: Not forgetting it was Labour croneyism that chose Falmer in the first place. This is known as a fact.

What do the supporters think. My thoughts occurred about five years ago. Inasmuch, I thought that Falmer would take too long and drew up an an alternative suggestion.

 

[London Irish]

Rubbish, Perseus. If Prescott thought Falmer was unsuitable, he would have said so Tuesday (in fact, he would have said so way back in February-March). The delay was his advisers thinking up the best ways to junk Hoile-Collyer, as many people correctly forecast on here.

 

[perseus]

I actually forecast that Prescott would pull a stroke like this, widening the scope of the Public Inquiry to include other sites, but Lord Bracknell pooh-hooed the idea saying that the Public Inquiry was about Falmer and the other sites only incidentally came into it.

It does smack of Prescott's hand. I do not think the local Labour cronies are clever enough to pull off something like this. Sorry, I can accept Prescott thought it all up on his own, but to think the local Labour representatives are capable of asserting influence in this way, is stretching my credulity just a shade too much

Rider: I can accept that the local Labour cronies could actually explain to Prescott that the support for the stadium was overwhelming. But I expect he could find out that for himself anyway. He might be able to work out with 30,000 fans going to Cardiff, how are they going to fit into a 22,000 stadium anyway.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I actually forecast that Prescott would pull a stroke like this, widening the scope of the Public Inquiry to include other sites, but Lord Bracknell pooh-hooed the idea saying that the Public Inquiry was about Falmer and the other sites only incidentally came into it.

The Public Inquiry was about Falmer. Other sites only came into it to the extent that it was necessary for the Club to prove that there was no other suitable site available - this is a requirement of planning law in relation to major developments in the AONB.

In my opinion, this has already been successfully demonstrated. The Public Inquiry has been re-opened only because some of the Club's evidence (in relation to Sheepcote Valley, in particular) has not been tested by cross-examination in public, since it was first submitted during the Reference Back exercise.

For the new Inquiry, the onus will be on the objectors to Falmer to demonstrate that another site is suitable and available (against the criteria spelt out in the ODPM's letter). It still won't be an Inquiry to examine all sites in the same depth as Falmer has been examined.