Has Anyone Had to Cross A Picket Line To Get to Work??

[Buzzer]

For those currently in employment yes. But new staff no. .

Really? I'd beg to differ with you there, Diffbrook. The principal civil service pension (PCSPS) is still final salary, it's still non-contributory and is still unfunded which means effectively that it's underwritten by the government. There was a change in 2002 when the PCSPS changed the rules for new members but all it effectively did was double the death in service contributions to 3% from 1.5% in return for better death in service benefits. Existing members had the option to stay or move into the new scheme.

There's also the partnership scheme which is a defined contribution scheme for new members where it's also completely free, there is also a pound for pound matching by employers AND death in service benefits.

In central government, pay has outstripped the private sector in many areas. On top of that, there's also the bestest, safest pension scheme in the land. I'm not sure how local civil service pensions work though and I couldn't comment on the pay.

I think it's fair to say that there are a lot of civil servants earning a very nice wage. There are also civil servants (notably Job Centre Plus staff) on shockingly low wages so IMO it's impossible to make any generalisations about pay. Pension-wise though, they're doing a lot better than most people.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I'm not sure how local civil service pensions work though and I couldn't comment on the pay.

A fundamental difference between civil service pensions and the local government pension scheme is that the local government scheme is a contributory scheme.

The main reason that local government pension funds have become underfunded is that, for years, the employers systematically withheld part of their share of contributions in order to keep council taxes down.

 

[Buzzer]

Ahh. I was vaguely aware of something like a 6% contribution rule. I didn't know that employers were withholding contributions though. I know that this is out of the jurisdiction of the Pensions Regulator but surely withholding contributions - for anything over 15 days after the due date - contravenes the Pensions Act 2004.

Are you sure about that, LB?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Unions do very good work, but some reps are convinced it is 1975 and act accordingly sadly, undoing all the progress made elsewhere.

I'd agree with this. Many union reps i've met are completly committed to supporting their members, but I'm sure that many union members would be horrified if they had more exposure to the politics of the people that run these unions i.e. far lefts trots. I'm also annoyed that they so often appear to exist solely for the benefit of staff that have been at the same level for the last decade. When it comes to pay negotiatons they are far more interested in giving above inflation rises to those at the top of pay band (which costs a lot of money) than trying to move up those lower down the scale. Based on last years pay deal it will take me 40 years to make it to the top of the pay scale.

Those as well as other issues is why I've recently resigned from PCS. We (DCMS) aren't in the same position as the likes of DWP and HMRC (where I would most definitely want to be in a union) so I couldn't bear the general incompetence any longer and hated the thought of my subs going to support the Looney Left Serwotka.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

And the only reason civil servants have still got a final salary linked pension is because we were prepared to take action to fight to keep it. Our victory has probably slowed down the relentless charge towards doing away with final salary pensions elsewhere.

I work for Royal Mail and we have just lost our Final Salary scheme, replaced by a career average scheme. Watch this space for action by the workforce in the near future.

 

[Tooting Gull]

There have been strikes at my company over the past couple of years, and the first thing to say is that it can be a very unpleasant business, setting people who have worked happily side by side for years against each other.

Personally I am in the union, and I would never cross a picket line. Sadly there were those even in the union that did so, and they hugely undermined the whole thing, creating a good deal of lasting resentment.

There were also plenty of non-union and freelance people who did so, which is slightly more understandable if equally annoying and damaging.

The most recent one was probably my first real view of the sharp end of a strike, with some very strong feelings on both sides. And I was very disappointed that what one day seemed a total unanimity over the need for a series of strikes ebbed away after only one day of action into a load of petty self-interest, with plenty of 'help' from management. My view is that nothing worth anything comes easy, and if you all stick together you can win changes, but we never got the chance.

I felt really sorry for the union organisers, they stuck their necks out, risked their own careers, and were really let down by their own members.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

simple just vote for the tories and kick labour and one eyed brown out

Oh yeah because that will stop striking won't it?!

 

[Buzzer]

It's not the entire picture to paint the unions out as some sort of 1970s marxist dinosaur. There's a fair few employers who still seem to think that they are fighting some sort of Thatcherite agenda against a foe that must be banished forever.

Unions are essential as a collective voice to express concerns over health and safety, fight for equality and fairness in the workplace and to give a voice and protect vulnerable workers.

But likewise, unions need to recognise that performance related pay is not the work of the devil, that capital investment is sometimes just as important as more pay. It's all well and good paying people more but if the conditions, the tools and the environment is crap then we're back to square one. That occasionally some staff really are just incompetent. That some staff are absolute godsends and should be rewarded accordingly.

Christ - I'm on one of my rants again. I'll shut up now.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Ahh. I was vaguely aware of something like a 6% contribution rule. I didn't know that employers were withholding contributions though. I know that this is out of the jurisdiction of the Pensions Regulator but surely withholding contributions - for anything over 15 days after the due date - contravenes the Pensions Act 2004.

Are you sure about that, LB?

Absolutely sure. The local government employers' legal duty is to manage pension funds at a local level, ensuring that there is enough money in the fund and that the fund is sufficienly "well managed" to meet all obligations to pay pensions. In the short run (where contributions by a large workforce are enough to cover payouts to pension recipients), this obligation can be met quite easily. In the long run, it is storing up trouble. The workforce is shrinking and pensioners are living longer. But who cares about the long run? Certainly not a here-today-and-gone-tomorrow local politician who wants to win public support by cutting council taxes.

Things HAVE changed in recent years, of course. Current local government staff are being told by the current batch of politicians that future pension benefits "need" to be cut. Of course they do! The previous batch of politicians ensured that.

 

[Buzzer]

Absolutely sure. The local government employers' legal duty is to manage pension funds at a local level, ensuring that there is enough money in the fund to meet all obligations to pay pensions. In the short run (where contributions by a large workforce are enough to cover payouts to pension recipients), this obligation can be met quite easily. In the long run, it is storing up trouble. The workforce is shrinking and pensioners are living longer. But who cares about the long run? Certainly not a here-today-and-gone-tomorrow local politician who wants to win public support by cutting council taxes.

Things HAVE changed in recent years, of course. Current local government staff are being told by the current batch of politicians that future pension benefits "need" to be cut. Of course they do! The previous batch of politicians ensured that.

So they manage the scheme as well. That would explain my confusion, apologies.

You can also point, with council taxes to smaller central government grants especially for us here in the South coupled in no small part with Gordon Brown's raid on pension schemes. Let's not forget pensions mis-selling under the Tories too and yep, it's a bloody horrible mess.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

I'm in the same situation as Mendoza, work on a council site, but am not directly employed by the council. I am going to work tomorrow, can't afford unpaid leave as I've got a week of that coming up in August anyway. Most of the people I work with who are employed by the council don't seem to be striking anyway.

 

[Stat Brother]

I work for Royal Mail and we have just lost our Final Salary scheme, replaced by a career average scheme. Watch this space for action by the workforce in the near future.

I'm not looking forward to that one.

Our office is still up pooh creek from the last time.
It's like 2 seperate factions, with management only listening to the hard core strikers, as they seem to be shouting the loudest.
I'm glad I went on strike but as there doesn't seem to be any real benefit to my losing the best part of 2 weeks wages.
Doing the same again because our pension has been mismanaged (like EVERYBODY elses), could prove difficult.

 

[Storer68]

.

In central government, pay has outstripped the private sector in many areas. On top of that, there's also the bestest, safest pension scheme in the land. I'm not sure how local civil service pensions work though and I couldn't comment on the pay.

I think it's fair to say that there are a lot of civil servants earning a very nice wage. There are also civil servants (notably Job Centre Plus staff) on shockingly low wages so IMO it's impossible to make any generalisations about pay. Pension-wise though, they're doing a lot better than most people.

If you are in the Senior Civil Service (SCS) that is probably true where pay can range from £56,100 to £205,000. But these people are the exception rather than the norm

Last year the pay award (which we still haven't received!!!!) was 3.48%

I’ve already been in my Range for X years. Why am I still near the bottom of the scale?
Scale shortening over the 2003-2005 period has meant that, for some people who were in the lower half of a pay scale, they can seem to have lost ground in the scale as the minimum has been raised below them and “caught them up” (it was not affordable to position people immediately on the scales at the point
appropriate to their existing experience) even though they have been making progress and getting closer to the Target Rate over this period. As the 2006 and 2007 awards do not contain any scale shortening staff should now be moving away from the minimum rate of pay for their Range, as well as getting closer to the Target Rate. Back to top

 

[perth seagull]

I've had to cross a picket line before. I was nervous about going to work that morning, as I knew all about the strike. But strangely the moment I walked into my building the line temporarily broke and no one noticed me walk through.

The union where I worked was absolutely useless and seemed to do nothing to improve working conditions for the average worker. They agree with everything that the employer says about issues that affect the average worker, yet jump up and down over stuff that 0.01% of the working population would need (crap like adoption leave, all these obscure types of leave that no one will ever use). They've also been powerless to stop some unpopular changes that my former employer put through in the past. And to add insult to injury, they give money to a political party that I detest (this seems to be where most of their extortionate membership fees go). I used to be a member of this union, but gave it up and have no regrets. In this day and age with decent employment laws, this particular union has no real purpose.

Fortunately, I now work for an employer where workplace relations seem to be much smoother and have never felt the need to join the union or ever seen a strike.

 

[Mendoza]

As it turned out, as I got to work so at 8.15am, there were only 2 people making up said picket line, and they were putting up their Unison flags on the gates.

I have been told to wear my contractors company polo shirt now to avaoid confrontation tomorrow.

Maybe there will be more people on the line when I head out for lunch in a minute

 

[Mr Blobby]

As it turned out, as I got to work so at 8.15am, there were only 2 people making up said picket line, and they were putting up their Unison flags on the gates.

You should have taken the GDC flag and said to them "call that a flag, this is a proper flag!"

I gave up on joining unions when i was made redundant by the Royal Bank of Scotland many moons ago. When I contacted the union (of which I had been a member from the day I joined - so about 10 years) they said "what do you want us to do about it". I think the bank shed about 20,000 jobs that year and the union rolled over and did f all!! So hence I am now no longer a union member.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

are posties in unison?

if not where the f*** is my post?!

 

[Wardy]

are posties in unison?

if not where the f*** is my post?!

No

At the sorting office?

 

[Jamon Jamon]

To quote The Housemartins

"Apathy is happy that it won without a fight"


.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I'm not looking forward to that one.

Our office is still up pooh creek from the last time.
It's like 2 seperate factions, with management only listening to the hard core strikers, as they seem to be shouting the loudest.
I'm glad I went on strike but as there doesn't seem to be any real benefit to my losing the best part of 2 weeks wages.
Doing the same again because our pension has been mismanaged (like EVERYBODY elses), could prove difficult.

I think it's going to be difficult for the union to drum up support this time, Royal Mail have played their cards right and I'm not sure whether the a strike about the pension will have such big support as the last set of strikes.